Persistant BVD

[ROCK-N-W]

I suspect I have a young Black Angus Bull with a persistant strain of BVD. No large animal vets available locally. Does anyone know where I could send a blood sample for testing?
I understant that the persistant strain is not treatable?
I have been nursing this bull back to health several times since I purchased him cannot get a response from the breeder, It is a registered Angus. Do I have any recourse with the Angus association about the seller? If this turns out to be the persistant type they had to know when they sold him to me, cause (I THINK) that is passed on at the fetal stage.
Any suggestions on determing cause or treatments are welcome.
This is what I have done. Shots of LA 200, terramyician spell check that, in drinking water. Wormed with Ivemc + inj
Also have used the Terrmaycian tabs in food. I have Issolated bull from rest of herd. He gets separate drinking water ,hay & feed. I have had to doctor this bull four times in six month period he is the only one in my herd I have this problem with. Stumped? When I get him healty as I can Again I will have to sell him at market and request he go for slaughter so no one else ends up with him. Spent all that money. What a darn shame. :help:

 

[feelnrite]

I bought a registered angus bull once that I had trouble with but the breeder took him back and gave me my money back on him. He was the type of bull that worked himself to death anyway and came down with a respiratory problem that nothing would seem to kick. He would run a high fever and breath real hard and had roughness in his lungs. The breeder took him back and had trouble with him too and dont know what he ever did with him. I always wondered what he had. I vacc. all of my herd and the reason being years ago had trouble with BVD in calves. Some born weak ended up losing a couple. Lab finally found some BVD.

 

[ROCK-N-W]

Is taking a blood sample the only way to determine? I always thought that there was to kinds of BVD the treatable kind & the reaccurring kind, thinkin this is the case here. The later that is.

 

[ROCK-N-W]

You would have thought that the breeder would have vaccinated him before I got him, she works in a vets office as a assistant vet. Well I just hope I can pull him outa of it one more time and get him sold. And I won't sellem to anyone else, not under my name,fo sho

 

[Bez>]

A couple of things - and I admit I am not as up on BVD as I probably should be.

1. That breeder would be hearing from me even if I had to visit and go face to face. I would still be polite but I would be firm.

2. If this is untreatable the honourable thing to do is shoot it and bury / compost / burn it. NOT sell it. No sense unloading your troubles on someone else. It will likely make it through the sale barn and then become another "wreck" story for an unsuspecting buyer.

Then we end up hearing another tale of woe on this web site. Cure it or kill it. Never pass your troubles (like this) along - it comes back in spades.

3. This is why I demand a veterinarian certificate of health before I take delivery. And I stand there while the health check is being completed. If blood work is carried out I wait for results before loading - even if it takes 14 days.

4. I also demand a written guarantee and proof of vaccination protocol. Responsible breeders can and will provide this.

3 & 4 can be completed quite amicably and I have never run into a breeder who objected. In fact the good ones want you to be involved - they want you to come back next year as a satisfied client who gives good word of mouth advertising.

And for sure before I did anything I would find out everything I needed to find out - in other words I would become an overnight expert - even if had to book an appointment withthe local veterinarinan - Or - I had to go straight to the nearest veterinary college for answers.

In the long run it might save me some additional serious grief down the road.

There is lots of good advice on this board on how to buy cows- I have used some of it and I have written some of it. But unfortunately it looks like you got a dud - and a sick one to boot.

Just my thoughts - good luck,

Bez>

 

[circlee]

what are the symptoms?

First i would try to get him back in good health. You might try another anibiotic. Next i would get in touch with the breeder even if you had to go to his place to make him talk to you and see if hes got any ideas and ask about a refund. If no refund i would salvage the bull (if he lives) as packer only.
I would never buy another thing from that breeder again or even take anything for free no matter what he was offering. AFter that i would tell everybody, that you possibly can, about your experience with that breeder.

i dont think THe AAA. can do anything about the problem but it wouldnt hurt to call and ask.

 

[I luv herfrds]

That is a terrible situation!!!!
Bez does have some valid points, but it does you no good if the seller won't talk to you.
I would ship that bull and try to recoup some of the monies you paid for him.
Next time find a more honest breeder. They are out there, just talk to them about what happened and some are very sympathic and will point you to other breeders.

 

[Bez>]

That is a terrible situation!!!!
Bez does have some valid points, but it does you no good if the seller won't talk to you.
I would ship that bull and try to recoup some of the monies you paid for him.
Next time find a more honest breeder. They are out there, just talk to them about what happened and some are very sympathic and will point you to other breeders.

So, you would ship him.

Is BVD contagious?

Is it curable?

Can this animal be eaten?

Drug withdrawal times?

If he goes through the sale barn can he infect others?

If he goes through the sale barn and gets bought by someone else - does the buyer have an animal that might die on him?

If he goes to another home that runs cattle that are not vaccinated can he infect them? You know that not all cattle are vaccinated - I have some here that have never seen a needle for various reasons. Another story.

Is this a contact or a wind born disease?

If I visit this animal and then visit an organic operation - will I infect that herd? Do I care? What the He LL just ship him?

What if I carry the germ from this cow to an organic herd unknowingly? Does it matter?

Ship him and "caveat emptor"?

I am not picking on you - this goes to anyone who would ship just to recover some cost at the expense of another. And possibly spread something as well.

Your thoughts? Anyone? Or perhaps another topic?

Morals and ethics?

Am I any better than the breeder that I am PI SSED at if I ship him as is?

Or am I simply the same - or perhaps worse?

Would you sell him to your neighbour?

If not then why a stranger?

Or is it just dollars?

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Just my opinion.

Hence my "cure him or kill him" comment.

Bez>

 

[ROCK-N-W]

Thats what I meant as selling only as slaugter, I would contact the livestock market and ask first, they might not even take him. but first I need to be sure of the diagnosis. I really would never sell any animal to another rancher that I would not keep for myself. That said, It is my word which is my bond...
The symptoms are quick wait loss, diahrea, runny nose, he stays in water to keep himself cool, he can hardley walk without effort, I walked him all the way to the pens by placing my hand on his backside and guiding him straight into the shoot with no resistance. This is the third time He has dropped down like this, I did haul him to a vet who took blood & stool samples, but he improved after he was medicated. After some TLC & he regained his weight. After about 8 weeks I turned him back out into herd. He now looks like a bag of bones again he was refusing to eat anything except the wet vegatation outa swamp area. Monday I gave him A shot of La 200 & went ahead and wormed him again, he was wormed in Nov of last year. Tuesday I gave him 4 tabs of terramyican and also put some of the same powder into his drinking water, with a package of Kick start which is basically vitimated suger water for energy, Like putting in a IV PICK EM UPPER, to try to get him eating. and moving. Today he was moving better and had eaten all of his feed & meds that I had left, I also gave him a vitamina A-D shot today put more antibiotics in his water &. we will see tommorrow how he is. but even if I save his butt, I need to find out what is the cause. As soon as I can get someone to answer a ph I will talk to breeder and ask that he come get his bull and refund my payment. The other bull his brother is fat happy and working hard?

 

[Bez>]

Thats what I meant as selling only as slaugter, I would contact the livestock market and ask first, they might not even take him. but first I need to be sure of the diagnosis. I really would never sell any animal to another rancher that I would not keep for myself. That said, It is my word which is my bond...
The symptoms are quick wait loss, diahrea, runny nose, he stays in water to keep himself cool, he can hardley walk without effort, I walked him all the way to the pens by placing my hand on his backside and guiding him straight into the shoot with no resistance. This is the third time He has dropped down like this, I did haul him to a vet who took blood & stool samples, but he improved after he was medicated. After some TLC & he regained his weight. After about 8 weeks I turned him back out into herd. He now looks like a bag of bones again he was refusing to eat anything except the wet vegatation outa swamp area. Monday I gave him A shot of La 200 & went ahead and wormed him again, he was wormed in Nov of last year. Tuesday I gave him 4 tabs of terramyican and also put some of the same powder into his drinking water, with a package of Kick start which is basically vitimated suger water for energy, Like putting in a IV PICK EM UPPER, to try to get him eating. and moving. Today he was moving better and had eaten all of his feed & meds that I had left, I also gave him a vitamina A-D shot today put more antibiotics in his water &. we will see tommorrow how he is. but even if I save his butt, I need to find out what is the cause. As soon as I can get someone to answer a ph I will talk to breeder and ask that he come get his bull and refund my payment. The other bull his brother is fat happy and working hard?

Not poking fingers at you my friend - but we always talk shipping - but we never talk about what we ship and why we ship and the down stream effect.

How many folks you hear say - I love going to the sale barn - the quality of cattle is right up there. Hardly ever. Usually it is - bought a piece of schitzen and it died and then everyone says -well you only get crap at the barns.

The "sell to the neighbour" is my test. Otherwise I run them through the ring with a red X on their sides - kill only.

Bez>

 

[ROCK-N-W]

From what I understand if it is persistant BVD he can give the non persistant type to other animals, That can be treated.
But the persistant type is a recurring that , some say has no treatment , that is why I am asking for help here.
From my understanding the persistant type is picked up at fetus stage only. I need help with the diagnosis because when the last vet did the blood work he did not tell me that this is what the cause of his illness was, The vet is no longer around.

 

[msscamp]

Does anyone know where I could send a blood sample for testing?

You might try calling the Veterinary Teaching Hospital at the University of Georgia in Athens. I believe Florida also has a Veterinary Teaching Hospital? If so, call them as well. Even if they can't help you, they should be able to put you in touch with someone who can.

I understant that the persistant strain is not treatable?

I'm not as up on PI BVD as I should be, either - but I thought the whole problem with PI animals is that they DON'T show symptoms and, because of that they can infect your whole herd without you knowing it?

I have been nursing this bull back to health several times since I purchased him cannot get a response from the breeder, It is a registered Angus. Do I have any recourse with the Angus association about the seller?

I don't know about the Angus Association, but I believe I would follow Bez's advice on this one - and it would be with the breeder.

If this turns out to be the persistant type they had to know when they sold him to me, cause (I THINK) that is passed on at the fetal stage.

Again, I thought the whole danger of PI infected calves is that it can't be determined without a blood test.

Any suggestions on determing cause or treatments are welcome.

I could be wrong on this, but I think the only way of determining PI is a blood test. If it is PI, I don't believe any treatment is going to solve the problem - hence the term PI.

I will have to sell him at market and request he go for slaughter so no one else ends up with him. Spent all that money. What a darn shame. :help:

Yes, it is a darn shame. I'm sorry.

 

[Bez>]

From what I understand if it is persistant BVD he can give the non persistant type to other animals, That can be treated.
But the persistant type is a recurring that , some say has no treatment , that is why I am asking for help here.
From my understanding the persistant type is picked up at fetus stage only. I need help with the diagnosis because when the last vet did the blood work he did not tell me that this is what the cause of his illness was, The vet is no longer around.

Picked up at the fetus stage - but something had to put it there in the first place.

I hear you - that is why I take you back to my first long winded post about becoming an expert - including going to the vet college if necessary. Veterinarians come and veterinarians go - but the colleges usually stay. I use them a lot - others should as well.

I get great service and great advice and the price is right.

The nearest one to me is about a three hour drive so we do a lot of phone work - but I will go there if I need to.

They took in the one and only case of cancer eye I have ever had - using some cryogenic procedure they got rid of the cancer and that was 5 years ago - we still have the cow. Other than my hauling cost, the entire procedure plus her two night stay over - total cost - about 250 bucks.

Become the local expert on this and re-do the blood work. You have everything to gain and very little to lose. Plus - we give you all sorts of medical advice - but HOW GOOD is it really?

I think there is only one / maybe two veterinarians on this board - the rest of us are hacks that raise cattle.

Late for me - good luck - off to bed.

Bez>

 

[ROCK-N-W]

I generally give it my best collage try before I givem that 21 gun salute. I have saved quite a few in the past that most would have put down, but I have lost as many too So I think I;ll try to savem first shootem later. I have enough meds in him to cure or killem we will just have to wait and sse. & I won't take him anywhere till I know he is healthy, Now back to my orginal question any Ideas on treatments ?

 

[ROCK-N-W]

From what I understand if it is persistant BVD he can give the non persistant type to other animals, That can be treated.
But the persistant type is a recurring that , some say has no treatment , that is why I am asking for help here.
From my understanding the persistant type is picked up at fetus stage only. I need help with the diagnosis because when the last vet did the blood work he did not tell me that this is what the cause of his illness was, The vet is no longer around.

Picked up at the fetus stage - but something had to put it there in the first place.

I hear you - that is why I take you back to my first long winded post about becoming an expert - including going to the vet college if necessary. Veterinarians come and veterinarians go - but the colleges usually stay. I use them a lot - others should as well.

I get great service and great advice and the price is right.

The nearest one to me is about a three hour drive so we do a lot of phone work - but I will go there if I need to.

They took in the one and only case of cancer eye I have ever had - using some cryogenic procedure they got rid of the cancer and that was 5 years ago - we still have the cow. Other than my hauling cost, the entire procedure plus her two night stay over - total cost - about 250 bucks.

Become the local expert on this and re-do the blood work. You have everything to gain and very little to lose. Plus - we give you all sorts of medical advice - but HOW GOOD is it really?

I think there is only one / maybe two veterinarians on this board - the rest of us are hacks that raise cattle.

Late for me - good luck - off to bed.

Bez>

Thanks I will try to get a hold of University of Florida tommorow.
My only other vet options is a ways off, Gotta make sure he can handle the trip first, would hate to strees him more and show up pulling around a dead bull in my trailer, Thanks again

 

[kishvet]

Here is a quick refresher on BVDV- PI. Fairly easy reading and not too terribly long. The people at U of Nebraska have done a good bit of work on it. Press release is a bit old but most of the info is still OK. Best way to test is with a piece of skin - usually from the ear. Can use a "pig ear notcher"

http://ianrnews.unl.edu/static/0004192.shtml

 

[randiliana]

Another easy to read, but longer article. If this bull is PI the best thing you could do is to put him down. He will cause problems for someone as long as he is alive. We have been in that position. Had a cow (2 year old) show signs of BVD. Took 2 years to clear it up. Now the herd is vaccinated for BVD. No more: dinky calves, calves with persistant diarreah, abortions, weak calves etc. What ever you do don't send him to some unsuspecting buyer..

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/liv ... vinevi.htm

 

[ROCK-N-W]

I don't have any dinky calves with or without diahria.
This is a young bull I purchased from 300 miles away.
I have asked for help in ways to determine if this is in fact what the problem is. I have got that, & thanks. We will just have to wait till he is further tested. Geez, if you read what I wrote you would know that I have no intentions of passing him off, I will either cure him or kill him, satisfied

 

[MikeC]

If you have a PI calf and have not gotten rid of it yet, do so now!

Also, it does no good to vaccinate a PI calf. He will always have it and infect the rest of your herd.

 

[CWT Angus]

I test mine with an ear notch & send it to the state vet. The charge is minimal- about $34 for up to 6 samples from different animals. You take the notches yourself, place them in a ziplock labeled w/ the animals ID, freeze & send them overnight on ice. Just something to look into. Good Luck to you.