pelvic area

[jerry27150]

i have a brangus bull that throw calves with big hips, (calves are not really bigger normal) have to pull on most all heifers. i have some good looking heifers calves out of him & i am wondering if they will have a bigger pelvic area for easier calving or will they also be trouble when calving with bigger calves?

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

i have a brangus bull that throw calves with big hips, (calves are not really bigger normal) have to pull on most all heifers. i have some good looking heifers calves out of him & i am wondering if they will have a bigger pelvic area for easier calving or will they also be trouble when calving with bigger calves?

Sounds like you need a better bull that has genes for lower birthweight calves. Such as Angus, Longhorns, etc.

With a "commercial" breed I would think that having to pull anything over 5 to 10% of your calves would be too much. So far, we haven't had to pull ANY of our longhorns calves. If it ever does happen, that cow either goes to sale barn or to freezer.

 

[Bez]

RAB

No matter what type of herd you are running - unless there is a problem with presentation or an early breeding, there should never be a pull to be done. You pull 5- 10% of a 200 head commercial herd you got real problems. You do this to a hobby herd of 10 animals - you still got probs - just not as bad.

Had one get bred early once about two years ago - we aborted her. Some folks just let them go on and calve out. Wrecks the animal.

The whole idea is to do as little work as possible.

I am not truly there myself - pulled one of my "guest" animals a month ago - but - touch wood - we are usually clean on the home herd on an annual basis.

Breeding / culling / genetics.

Gotta' pull the calf? There better be a darned good reason, or she is gone. Next time you might not be there, and then you got a dead calf - a dead cow - or maybe both dead. Not worth it.

Jerry - toss the bull - or breed older - maybe both.

Bez

 

[jerry27150]

havn't bred anymore heifers to him, he is a 3.5 bw. have two gert bulls that throw small calves in with everthing now & he is going to a bull sale on the 14 th. some of his steers could be club calves,but he is just not a heifer bull. but would still like to know if the heifers i have out of him will be easy calvers with a bigger pelvic area or if i keep any, will they breed more problems down the road

 

[preston39]

havn't bred anymore heifers to him, he is a 3.5 bw. have two gert bulls that throw small calves in with everthing now & he is going to a bull sale on the 14 th. some of his steers could be club calves,but he is just not a heifer bull. but would still like to know if the heifers i have out of him will be easy calvers with a bigger pelvic area or if i keep any, will they breed more problems down the road

=======
Jerry,

If these are heifers you wish to keep ...for a valid reason...I would take the precaution and measure the pelvics. A more informed decision can then be made.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Big hips don't necessarily mean larger pelvic areas. But, if you feel your calving heifers had ample pelvic areas, than there is no reason to cull these heifer calves - except that the new heifers will be carrying 1/2 their genes from the big hipped bull. I would make sure I bred them for easy calving first time out.

 

[dun]

If I really liked these heifers and had any doubts, I'ld just get a yearling pelvic measurement done. Although yearling pelvics aren;t fool proof, had a neighbor who had all of the daughters from one bull that had barely increased in pelvic from yearling to 2 years old, but I've alwasy used a minimum of 168 for yearlings and have had no problems. But we use calving ease bulls on heifers and even moderatly easy calving bulls on the cows. There are a lot of bulls out there that will give you (relative) calving ease and growth

dun

 

[jerry27150]

thank you all very much for your input. that helps me with my decision

 

[Bama]

To get an idea of the pelvic size. stick you hand in the anus. Extend your thumb. If you can rotate it all the way around she can throw a normal size calf. If you find resistance don't expect here to be able to have a large calf. They make some calipers that work great. The thumb idea is only a guesstament.

 

[preston39]

A..." guesstament"...but a good one.

 

[dun]

What I do when I breed them is see if I can open may hand all they way with the fingers extended. I'm holding up my hand so you can see the size. Haven't had any problems with that "rule of themb, or hand as the case me be" so far. But we know most of these young ladys mothers and know what to expect anyway. It's just one more comfort point.

dun

 

[preston39]

What I do when I breed them is see if I can open may hand all they way with the fingers extended. I'm holding up my hand so you can see the size. Haven't had any problems with that "rule of themb, or hand as the case me be" so far. But we know most of these young ladys mothers and know what to expect anyway. It's just one more comfort point.

dun

============
dun,
Disregarding the technicals for a moment...does your experience suggest that the dam transfers reproductive canal capabilities as much or more than the sire?

 

[dun]

dun,
Disregarding the technicals for a moment...does your experience suggest that the dam transfers reproductive canal capabilities as much or more than the sire?

Have no idea. But when we use bulls that are noted for their daughters calving ability and we know the cow calves easily, it pretty much becomes a no brainer (in most cases) that the daughters will calve easily.

dun

 

[preston39]

Interesting point.

 

[jerry27150]

i think you are right dun, i am beginning to think the cow has more to do with it than the bull. had one heifer that is from an easy calving line that had no problem from this bull. been watching this more the last 5-6 years & think some cows or heifers can be bred to any bull & not have a problem

 

[dun]

i think you are right dun, i am beginning to think the cow has more to do with it than the bull. had one heifer that is from an easy calving line that had no problem from this bull. been watching this more the last 5-6 years & think some cows or heifers can be bred to any bull & not have a problem

When we're using a bull for the first time and not real comfortable with his calving ease, we breed him to a couple of cows that could probably pass a Buick sideways with no trouble. We know what size calves to expect from them so we can make at least an educated guess (or SWAG) as to what to expect when he's bred to some of the others. We tried a new Polled Hereford bull and a Fleckvieh bull last year. They're both schedulaed to be used a lot this season.

dun

 

[jerry27150]

sounds like a good idea

 

[preston39]

sounds like a good added precaution for calving ease.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Pelvic area is definitely important. A friend who worked for Genex, and had several other cattle related jobs, including Co-op manager, (Now working in the Northeast for a feed company; has a degree in animal science, used to breed Maine Anjou) once worked for a large Angus ranch. He said they bred religiously for low BW without regards to other areas of calving ease until they were pulling 60 pound calves from cows with tiny pelvic areas.

BTW, for you Red Angus folks on the boards, this same guy worked for a time for David Ingalls, head of the Oasis Network of christian radio stations, and a pastor in Broken Arrow. Mr. Ingalls has a herd of Red Angus that my friend said were some of the best he'd seen.

 

[Bama]

If measuring take verticle x horzonal in cm then devide by the factor

500-700 lbs or 12 - 14 months divide by 2
700-800lbs or 18 - 19 months divide by 2.5
800- 900lbs 0r 23 - 24 months divide by 3.1

Example measurements are 19 X 14 = 266 heifer weight and she is 18 mo. old.
Divide 266 by 2.5 = 106.4

This heifer under normal conditions can give birth to a 106.4 lb calf.