Payback period of a hay shelter?

[canoetrpr]

We had a hay delivery today of 42 round 4x5s. We are going through about 60 per year. It is much cheaper for us to purchase from a supplier who is a couple of hours away so we must buy 42 at a time.

Unfortunately we don't have a building to store it in so we line item up in rows with the bale ends packed tightly and space between the rows of hay. I've only got 20 pallets so the other 20 are currently sitting on the snow covered gravel drive.

My wife and me got to thinking what the payback period would be for a basic hay shelter. I don't currently have an idea of how much hay I am losing to outside storage. I suspect that most of the losses are occurring when a thaw starts happening. I'm spending about $3k on hay per year. I'm wondering whether it can actually be worthwhile to spend the money on a very basic building (coverall type tarp covered building or pole barn with a roof but open on all sides). I plan to collect more pallets to keep as many bales as I can off the ground. That said the 20 or so that are not on pallets will be fed first and I expect will be gone before a thaw hits.

Just wondering if anyone has done much thinking about this. I am not quite sure what a basic hay storage building costs but I am looking at a local small farm magazine that lists a 30x60 hay storage structure with steel arches for $5k. I imagine once all done (grading, installation, etc.) one would be looking at $10k at least.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[grubbie]

Good question...here is how I figure it in my area. Our bales are approximately 1000 lb rolls. We waste around 1 to 1.5 small squares or so per roll because of snow/thaw/ re-freeze....you have a big chunk of ice on one side. So to make it easy, figure 100 lb. waste per 1000 lb roll. A 1000 lb roll here is 50 dollars this year. So we waste 5.00 per roll. 60 rolls times 5.00 is 300.00. 10K divided by 300 is 33. So,....it would take me 33 years to pay off that building, versus storing it outside.
Now,...I am sure others will argue my math, logic, whatever. This is what we see that we waste in our situation. The outer brown parts of the bale do get eaten, as does some moldy hay. The only thing they don't seem to clean up is the frozen stuff. And our cows are not starving....quite the contrary, they are FAT. The only time we feed is when it is bitter cold, or when the snow gets so deep they can't get to any grass.
So for us, it is not worth it from a business aspect. We store it outside.

 

[Angus Cowman]

it all depends on the cost of the hay and the cost of the building and also how much moisture you get on the hay
I have always figured a 10% loss on outside hay and it is probably a little higher than that
it doen't take much of a building to store 60 bales
in a 40x80 x14ft tall I can get around 380 - 4x5 bales
your best investment might be a gravel pad and a hay tarp, if you get alot of snow the hay tarps are a PITA
so with a 20x40 you should be able to put alteast 100 or go with a 30x 30

 

[SRBeef]

On setting hay on pallets - I find it really helps reduce the spoilage on the bottom of the bales, both unwrapped and wrapped.

However I am on my third winter with some pallets and they are starting to fall apart leaving nails all over, many pointing straight up from boards frozen to the ground. Tractor tires are expensive.

Now that I am wrapping all bales I think I am going to forget the pallets with their nail problems. jmho.

Jim

 

[dun]

About 6 inches of 2 inch rock and these tarps will save a lot of hay
http://storesense4.megawebservers.com/c ... y=Haycover

Information:
http://www.caes.uga.edu/commodities/fie ... GC9707.pdf

 

[canoetrpr]

Hmm. I have not quite thought through the pallets falling apart leaving nails behind part. I'm going to have to search for that bale wrapping rig of yours on this forum SRBeef. How much better do you think the bales do? How many do you go through a year and what did you think the payback period would be?

 

[tripleBfarms]

While were on the subject, how long should I let newly rolled hay set out before I put it in a tobacco barn? I've heard stories about barns being burned down, and don't want to give em another story to tell. I've been told 2 weeks.

 

[dun]

While were on the subject, how long should I let newly rolled hay set out before I put it in a tobacco barn? I've heard stories about barns being burned down, and don't want to give em another story to tell. I've been told 2 weeks.

Depends on the moisture when it's baled. I leave it out for a couple of days till it's gone through a sweat. Easiest way is to take it's temp. It will usually rise for a day or 2 then drop. After it has dropped it should be safe.
If we left it out for 2 weeks aorund here, in normal years it would be wetter when we put it away then it was when it was baled becuase we almost always get rain at the wrong time

 

[SRBeef]

Hmm. I have not quite thought through the pallets falling apart leaving nails behind part. I'm going to have to search for that bale wrapping rig of yours on this forum SRBeef. How much better do you think the bales do? How many do you go through a year and what did you think the payback period would be?

The answers to your questions depend a lot on your climate and how much spoilage you are seeing in bales just stored outside. As I recall the simple wrapper I bought was about 2500-2800. or in that range - I am not sure right now. I did a cost comparison in a post some time ago.

If you have the land and the right spot for one, a simple hay storage building would be better than wrapping. I have some different circumstances which is why I got into wrapping.

I just posted some pictures and discussion of wrapped bales in answer to another thread.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=66412

good luck. Jim

 

[plumber_greg]

I don't know what your situation is, but as AG said it's not gonna' take much of a building to store 60 bales. Why not consider a larger one to enclose part of to use for machine storage, shop, etc. While you're building a basic building, a side shed or some other extension of the building usually doesn't cost much to add. gs

 

[SRBeef]

Good point Greg. When building any shed, the only thing you know for sure is that when you are done you will wish you had made it bigger or taller. So make it as big as you have room for and can afford. Jmho. Jim

 

[1982vett]

I used these for years before I had barn space.

http://balebonnets.com/balebonnet.htm

I set them on railroad crossties and old light poles to get them off the ground.

 

[canoetrpr]

Very interesting thoughts folks. I'm glad I posted. I figure if I built a building it wouldn't be much less than a 30'x60' pole barn. Guess I could work on getting at least two sides covered up over the years to keep more weather out. I don't have a desperate nee for another building. I've got a pretty nice shop where I store my equipment although it would be nice to get some of it out of the so that I can get to something without having to move other stuff. I imagine if I went to squares I might be able to get by with less room. My little Kubota makes it hard to stack rounds 3 high well. Squares would allow me less wasted space.

The bale bonnet is looking like a pretty good option right now. SRBeef - do I understand correctly that the wrapping machine takes 10 minutes per bale? I don't think I can afford near that much time!

1982vet - the website talks about securing the bonnet with nails. Kinda worried about the idea of having nails left around in my bales.

We plan to get down to getting one hay delivery or so in the fall. There is a lot of freezing and thawing going on at that time so I think it does make sense to cover with something.

 

[1982vett]

1982vet - the website talks about securing the bonnet with nails. Kinda worried about the idea of having nails left around in my bales.

quote]
The term "nail" is not exactly a nail. It is a 12 inch barbed spike about 3/16 in diameter with an "eye looped" end. You remove them when you take the cover off. Haven't had any of the ones I've lost get stuck in a tractor tire and I doubt a cow would swallow one although cows being cows..... 10 mil uv resistant plastic covers. Pretty good usage life. As with any tarp or cover, storage of them comes into play. I will suggest to fold them, tie a piece of baling twine around them and hang them from a shed ceiling out of the reach of mice and rats. High winds can tend to get under them and work them loose or rip the corners off but didn't see much of that with the individual covers. The 100 foot covers I cut into 15 to 20 ft covers and saw a little more wind damage because the alignment of bales allowed wind to get under them easier. Hawks can poke holes in them trying to get to mice. You hear a lot of bad things about covering hay with plastic with regard to mold and mildew caused by condensate under the plastic. I really didn't see that as the moisture isn't trapped. I'd say this system, the covers and crossties to get the bale off the ground, is the next best thing to a barn. The carryover hay I've store this was was just as good the second year as the first. I don't recall carrying any over more than 2 years.

 

[1982vett]

Hey! Where did the edit button go?

Anyway, here are a few photos of the "nails" and how the covers are attached.

 

[canoetrpr]

I found the following study of round bale storage techniques done by the Government of Alberta dept of Agriculture and Rural Development. An interesting read.

This is making me think that the bonnet is the best way to go for me and more important than anything is keeping them off the ground on pallets (I'm on my way to find about 20 more pallets).

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/eng3131

The compared:
1. Single row unprotected
2. Two bale vertical unprotected (Mushroom - one bale on its end and second on its side)
3. Bales stored inside a protected building

with bales wrapped with plastic using the Vermeer Bale Wrapper and Unverferth Bale Wrapper.

The conclusions were as follows:

* The hay used for the research was 60% alfalfa and 40% Brome/Timothy grass, 75 to 100% in bloom at 10 to 15% moisture content. The bales used in the study were stored for 16 months in Manitoba receiving 17 in (425 mm) of rain. The long-term average for the test site is 24 in (600 mm) of rain.

* The Inside bales had 0% Total Feed Loss (0% spoilage and 0% dry matter loss).

* The Rowed bales had 6.4% Total Feed Loss (5.6% spoilage and 0.8% dry matter loss). Some of the spoiled hay, in areas other than the bottom of the bale, could still be consumed by cattle.

* The plastic wrapped bales had a 7.5% Total Feed Loss (3.8% spoilage and 3.7% dry matter loss). Spoilage primarily occurred at the bottom of these bales. This spoiled hay was determined to be unfit for cattle consumption.

* The Mushroom method had the bottom bale on its end and the top bale on its side. Total Feed Loss for this method was 10.6% (9.1% spoilage and 1.5% dry matter loss). Most of the spoilage (80%) occurred in the bottom placed bale.

* Plastic wrapped bales retained considerable moisture in the bottom of the bale which led to high dry matter and spoilage losses. Also, prior to feeding, this high moisture may make it difficult to remove the plastic due to freezing. Deterioration of the plastic wrap had occurred after one year of storage.

* Under the conditions during the test, no economic advantage was realized in wrapping round bales with plastic.

 

[canoetrpr]

Really appreciate those photos.

 

[Floyd]

I use old billboard signs for tarping my hay. They are free from the company that owns the billboards. Very heavy pvc material.

There are pockets "welded around the edge so the sign can be cinched tight. I run 1/4" pipe thru these pockets then tie it down on the pallets.

It is very windy where I live. These tarps last me about 3 yrs on average.

 

[kenny thomas]

tripleBfarms, my thoughts to your question about how long before stacking bales in the tobacco barns.
When you used the small square bales did you leave them outside for a few days before putting them in the barn? Of course not, so why would you leave the round bales out. Hay bales with the correct moisture content can go directly into the barn.
I don't always get it done but I do not like for the dew to fall on mine before it is in the barn. Put over 800 rolls in the old tobacco barns this year.

 

[tripleBfarms]

tripleBfarms, my thoughts to your question about how long before stacking bales in the tobacco barns.
When you used the small square bales did you leave them outside for a few days before putting them in the barn? Of course not, so why would you leave the round bales out. Hay bales with the correct moisture content can go directly into the barn.
I don't always get it done but I do not like for the dew to fall on mine before it is in the barn. Put over 800 rolls in the old tobacco barns this year.

Well thats a good point. Maybe the fires were caused from the hay not being cured before rolling. I'll try it and hope for the best. This will be the first year we've ever put any rolls in the dry.