Pasture restoration

[Warren Allison]

We have the same problem here in Ga. From colonial days in the 1700's, until the 1970's, everything was planted in cotton, In the 1970's, people started planting beans, too, but on the same fields that were cotton fields. I don't know if it is a federal or a state grant, but right now, you can get the money for seed and fertilizer, to turn former row crop land into pasture. There is another one, that if the perimeter fence is in place, and you have , I think, 35 head, you can get the money to cross fence. There was another one, too ( from UGA , I think) that would pay to sprig World Feeder Bermuda and Bulldog Alfalfa in north Ga, but it was from Macon, north. Our place was about 40 miles too far south to get that, but the other grant paid for us to do it on the row crop fields across the road from the Kudzu Place.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

We have the same problem here in Ga. From colonial days in the 1700's, until the 1970's, everything was planted in cotton, In the 1970's, people started planting beans, too, but on the same fields that were cotton fields. I don't know if it is a federal or a state grant, but right now, you can get the money for seed and fertilizer, to turn former row crop land into pasture. There is another one, that if the perimeter fence is in place, and you have , I think, 35 head, you can get the money to cross fence. There was another one, too ( from UGA , I think) that would pay to sprig World Feeder Bermuda and Bulldog Alfalfa in north Ga, but it was from Macon, north. Our place was about 40 miles too far south to get that, but the other grant paid for us to do it on the row crop fields across the road from the Kudzu Place.

Howdy @Warren Allison, those would be EQIP practices. Go to your Local NRCS office and talk to your District Conservationist (Federal Program, available in all states )

 

[gman4691]

If there are few enough plants, a more labor intensive treatment method might help…like boring into the trunks at a downward angle then making sure the spray gets into the holes (similar to injecting the chemical)…and I've heard it said that a good burn generally helps a pasture…although there are some plants that love to be burned. Sounds like more info should be put together and formulate a specific plan for those fields. Another thought is soil aeration - it doesn't disturb the soil as much as discing . Never tried aeration but I've heard good things from folks here in east Texas.

 

[BC]

If there are few enough plants, a more labor intensive treatment method might help…like boring into the trunks at a downward angle then making sure the spray gets into the holes (similar to injecting the chemical)…and I've heard it said that a good burn generally helps a pasture…although there are some plants that love to be burned. Sounds like more info should be put together and formulate a specific plan for those fields. Another thought is soil aeration - it doesn't disturb the soil as much as discoing. Never tried aeration but I've heard good things from folks here in east Texas.

Here was an interesting article from the Noble Foundation in Ardmore OK. https://www.noble.org/regenerative-agriculture/some-thoughts-on-soil-aeration-of-pastureland/

 

[Brute 23]

I do not think the spiked aerators do any thing productive. My preference is still the pasture renovator. It will do a nice job breaking things up and it's not near as invasive if it's done right. You can run it through a good stand of grass with out destroying it and it still be effective.

 

[Twisted]

Have you put the pencil to how much it is costing you to mow 3 times a year and what it would cost to spray once? This data is from 2003 but still hold true and that is for just one mowing. https://forages.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/26/legacy-files/PDF/mowvsherb.pdf

No I haven't, but have the chemical on hand. It's a work in progress. I am working toward getting water to areas where new paddocks would be so that I can move the cows and spray. I have seen what just clipping the weeds has done in a short couple of seasons and it really makes me wonder why I would want to spray it. I do spot spray the thistle and nightshade that clipping doesn't seem to bother.

 

[Brute 23]

No I haven't, but have the chemical on hand. It's a work in progress. I am working toward getting water to areas where new paddocks would be so that I can move the cows and spray. I have seen what just clipping the weeds has done in a short couple of seasons and it really makes me wonder why I would want to spray it. I do spot spray the thistle and nightshade that clipping doesn't seem to bother.

If you were impressed with what clipping did you will be flat out amazed with what spraying does.

 

[AmandaQ]

Do you mind passing a long a little more detail on your location like a county or area? Is you ground sandy or black or rocky or all the above? LoL I am guessing you see SA area based off your description.

Spot spraying the mesquite was good. Scraping the prickly pear will help open things up in the short term but when agitated they tend to come back worse. They can also be hand sprayed.

Find a good herb/ fert contractor or a co-op or some thing that's sprays. They is going to be your best bet. A mixture of boom spraying and spot spraying will give you the best results and don't require much equipment on your part.

Grass management will be a big one also. Even on a drought, keeping a healthy stand of grass really keeps those weeds and things out and promotes good soil health.

Is wildlife a priority or concern on this property also?

I was going to guess that same area as well, now I'm curious where are we talking about! Sometimes this message board makes me miss my San Antonio home!

 

[BC]

No I haven't, but have the chemical on hand. It's a work in progress. I am working toward getting water to areas where new paddocks would be so that I can move the cows and spray. I have seen what just clipping the weeds has done in a short couple of seasons and it really makes me wonder why I would want to spray it. I do spot spray the thistle and nightshade that clipping doesn't seem to bother.

There is a time and place to clip or shred pastures. This year was one of them because of all the spring and early summer rain. The grass got ahead of the cows. Normally we spray early to get thew weeds when they are less than 3 inches tall and have a chance to use the nutrients or water that could grow grass. for every lb of weed controlled ,you can grow an additional lb of forage. Here is some results comparing spraying (early and late), mowing, no weed control, with and without fertilizer and in a wet year and a dry year. https://forages.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/26/legacy-files/PDF/BadeInfo1.pdf

 

[1982vett]

Who boy!.....If this doesn't raise a ruckus I don't know what will.

I firmly believe weeds aren't necessarily completely evil. Now I'm not saying out of control weeds is a good thing, but weeds were the only tool Mother Nature had before man started interfering.

I've often wondered if any research has been done on the subject that hasn't been suppressed by certain chemical conglomerates. I did a quick search of "benefit of deep rooting weeds" and quite a bit of interesting information is available. A lot of it makes sense. Kind of goes along with why do I need to pull a pasture renovator with a tractor burning expensive fuel to "open up the soil in an effort to reduce compaction" when my yearly 2-4 month droughts crack open the soil 2-4 inches wide and 4 to who knows how many feed deep. Comparably, all I can accomplish is just a scratching on the surface.

Google Search

 

[BC]

Who boy!.....If this doesn't raise a ruckus I don't know what will.

I firmly believe weeds aren't necessarily completely evil. Now I'm not saying out of control weeds is a good thing, but weeds were the only tool Mother Nature had before man started interfering.

I've often wondered if any research has been done on the subject that hasn't been suppressed by certain chemical conglomerates. I did a quick search of "benefit of deep rooting weeds" and quite a bit of interesting information is available. A lot of it makes sense. Kind of goes along with why do I need to pull a pasture renovator with a tractor burning expensive fuel to "open up the soil in an effort to reduce compaction" when my yearly 2-4 month droughts crack open the soil 2-4 inches wide and 4 to who knows how many feed deep. Comparably, all I can accomplish is just a scratching on the surface.

Google Search

That is the reason why everyone needs to put a location in their profile. We both live in Texas, but your soils are way different than mine. I can see where in heavy blackland soils those deep rooted weeds can help water penetration.

 

[Twisted]

Who boy!.....If this doesn't raise a ruckus I don't know what will.

I firmly believe weeds aren't necessarily completely evil. Now I'm not saying out of control weeds is a good thing, but weeds were the only tool Mother Nature had before man started interfering.

I've often wondered if any research has been done on the subject that hasn't been suppressed by certain chemical conglomerates. I did a quick search of "benefit of deep rooting weeds" and quite a bit of interesting information is available. A lot of it makes sense. Kind of goes along with why do I need to pull a pasture renovator with a tractor burning expensive fuel to "open up the soil in an effort to reduce compaction" when my yearly 2-4 month droughts crack open the soil 2-4 inches wide and 4 to who knows how many feed deep. Comparably, all I can accomplish is just a scratching on the surface.

Google Search

I have worked in Texas as far south as San Antonio. Texas is warm yes but it still gets winter freezes and from what I've seen, the frost can be as deep as 6/8 inches, not often but it does. Frost does a lot to aerate soil. I seriously doubt that a pasture renovator gets that deep.

 

[Brute 23]

I have worked in Texas as far south as San Antonio. Texas is warm yes but it still gets winter freezes and from what I've seen, the frost can be as deep as 6/8 inches, not often but it does. Frost does a lot to aerate soil. I seriously doubt that a pasture renovator gets that deep.

Negative ghost rider.

 

[Silver]

Lots of deep rooted plants that aren't weeds.

 

[1982vett]

Lots of deep rooted plants that aren't weeds.

That's true too.

 

[Brute 23]

This is one of the things that gives me a twitch. If you are barely cutting the ground with your pasture renovator, the is a strong chance you are not doing some thing right. I have gotten at least 3 calls from people wanting to renovate their pastures. Every... single... time... it has been during a drought or dry period. You go out there, they are overgrazed, their pasture is like concrete, and they think a machine that opens up their ground to 100+ air, is going to solve their problem.

Not all soils respond and are worth using it on. The ones that are, you have to get in there when it's wet and get it sliced up. Cut it and cross cut it. When we are running the revovator we are burring it. The 3pt is down and it sucks the rear of the tractor down. You rippers have to be good and screw that top link in to make it bite. You can't do this stuff and wait until the soil is locked up with no rain the forecast. That's like waiting until you have rotten boards to paint your house. Even after that, if you are not willing to get your grazing under control, it's all a waste because that good grass cover and root system is still the best way.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

And on the flip side here if you do any sort of tillage/renovating/ripping when it's wet all you do is smear the heavy clay smooth and seal it like a porcelain plate. When your done all the water will puddle on top and run off.

 

[Twisted]

they are overgrazed

Exactly.
I read a log book once of a guy who was an archeologist for Smithsonian. They had hired him to record and explore the native Indian mounds along the Mississippi River. At the time, the white man had already settled the area and had a great deal of livestock. He soon realized that he couldn't explore the mounds because when the rivers were up, the livestock were moved to the mounds. I remember him writing that the ground was packed so hard by the livestock that he couldn't drive a simple nail in it.

 

[Brute 23]

Exactly.
I read a log book once of a guy who was an archeologist for Smithsonian. They had hired him to record and explore the native Indian mounds along the Mississippi River. At the time, the white man had already settled the area and had a great deal of livestock. He soon realized that he couldn't explore the mounds because when the rivers were up, the livestock were moved to the mounds. I remember him writing that the ground was packed so hard by the livestock that he couldn't drive a simple nail in it.

Some of it you can control but some of it you can't. Naturally some areas are just going to compact by the natural movement of cattle no matter how many you have. That's when you have to go in with some thing mechanical.

What I like about the pasture renovator is you can rotate out of a pasture, and if you are getting the rain, run the renovator behind the catte, let it rest and close back up, all during growing season. The damage with be minimal and you will keep loosened it up.

 

[Silver]

Ideally over time a person with management can increase organic matter sufficiently and the need for mechanical intervention goes away. Water and air infiltration, water holding capacity, reduced compaction are just a few of the benefits.