Pasture Maintenance

[ClinchValley]

Well a real newby here but trying out a different approach. Spot sprayed for brush then in May we began spraying fulvic with microbes. The microbes were provided with product and we grew them in 5 gallons of water with brown sugar for a week. After first spray there was a big difference in height of new grass. We had good rain then short drought. They normally put 1 cow to 10 acres here and even though we had 8 cows and a bull on 60 acres we mowed tops so grass could get sun. We also used as test for flies because flies are horrible in this area. The cattle across the road had to be sprayed every three days where these could go seven to ten days. They used a different spray however. I used mineral oil cedar wood oil and fulvic. The goal is high brix level which does not go by fertilizer numbers. So we shall see.

Interesting.

Was this expensive?

 

[NonTypicalCPA]

Great answers everyone, thanks! I will pull a soil test and see where I stand. Sounds like every two or three years review isn't out of the ordinary. I plan on hitting the pastures in the spring with 2-4d to kill off the weeds. Hopefully the clovers will survive.

 

[M.Magis]

I've never had 2,4D kill established clover even when I try. It'll slow it down a while, but never seems to kill it.

 

[Highpoint]

The army worms have moved into north central Oklahoma and ranchers who have never in 40 years are losing entire fields of wheat and brome. One rancher has planted three times. Farmers too. The stuff I am testing goes by brix levels not ph and when high enough is suppose to handle them. I did see where it worked in Colorado however we shall see.

 

[Jogeephus]

I haven't soil tested in some time now. Probably before 2010 or so.

Why? Cost vs reward from the info gained.....economics.

The information gain would be used to grow vegetation to be consumed by amimals or be cut for hay to be fed to animals with any surplus hay to be sold. Dang, the thought of all that work makes me tired.

I can look out over my pastures that I used to manage heavily for hay purposes and pastures I tried to keep just one more animal on. What was the payout on that.....for the work involved....?

Well, I carried 30% more cows. Baled 110 to 140 acres of hay. Spent a lot of time on a tractor burning fuel and working on equipment. Spent time watching the weather looking for the right time to throw thousands of dollars worth of fertilizer out or find the perfect time to cut and bale the hay it was put on. Then came moving the hay to storage or making arrangements for someone to come get it....but couldn't come because the were going on vacation.

Think about the end game a bit. Are you better off doing all these things? Is what you end up getting paid to do these things actually worth the time, extra work, and monetary risk?

Let's take some east round numbers.

Say your able to run 100 cows under this senecio. Consensus seems to be $450 to $500 yearly carrying cost per cow. Average that to $47500. Let's even give you 100 525 lb calves to sell today and your going to get $1.50 a pound commission free.....$78750.00........ yea! I made $31000......oops. I forgot about the 100 rolls of hay sold at $10 over cost. Or a lot less......$32000...... whoop

But what if you could carry 70 cows and forget about the hay. Never mind, I don't need 18 tons of fertilizer. Major equipment problem is the batteries in the tractors because it hasn't been cranked in a month. Instead of using 900 gallons of tractor fuel a year you can get by on less than 300.

55,125 - 32,250 = 21,875. But your work load went from about 1560 hours to about 520 or less.

Think about that for a bit....

I can relate to this. I take nothing from my pastures therefore I put nothing in them. I will pull a soil test every 5-8 years whether it needs it or not and will add any necessary nutrients but this is rarely very much. Lime would be the main thing and even that isn't much because I don't take from it nor do I add chemicals that will effect the pH.

If I were running stockers it would be a different story but for a cow/calf operation I don't see the need nor the economics of doing anything more. I've also noticed that by not pushing the stocking I have little to no health issues with the cattle. A while back I did have one develop a limp and she limped around for about two weeks and then she went to walking without a limp. Wonder what that was all about? I guess I could have called the vet.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Cattle do excrete most, but not all, of the nutrients they consume.
The issue is **** and urine concentrates by water points, shade, gates...
So there often is an issue with nutrient uniformity after the cattle relocate it.
Few people have ever grid tested pasture soil so they don't realize this.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Take nothing from a pasture??? If there's an animal living on it, its taking from it. A cows maintenance energy has to come from grass, that grass has to come from somewhere. Add growing animals, and those pounds comes from something - and the grass has to take it from the soil.

You take a jug of water into the desert with you, you drink only what you need and p1ss back into the jug. It may take a while, but eventually you're gonna be out of p1ss, let alone water.

 

[ddd75]

i just throw seed on the ground

 

[Stocker Steve]

For pasture:
It is always economical to cross fence.
It is often economical to lime and inter seed legumes for N fixing.
P and K are hard to justify unless you bale graze with inexpensive hay.

 

[Highpoint]

Well a real newby here but trying out a different approach. Spot sprayed for brush then in May we began spraying fulvic with microbes. The microbes were provided with product and we grew them in 5 gallons of water with brown sugar for a week. After first spray there was a big difference in height of new grass. We had good rain then short drought. They normally put 1 cow to 10 acres here and even though we had 8 cows and a bull on 60 acres we mowed tops so grass could get sun. We also used as test for flies because flies are horrible in this area. The cattle across the road had to be sprayed every three days where these could go seven to ten days. They used a different spray however. I used mineral oil cedar wood oil and fulvic. The goal is high brix level which does not go by fertilizer numbers. So we shall see.

Interesting.

Was this expensive?

Well I have now sprayed twice, May and September and it has cost 1500. The first spraying I put 1 oz per gallon and second spraying 2. I also ran down the road and sprayed 30 acres of another pasture 1 spraying to test on better land that had been burned and weeds sprayed. It is 160 acres total. Cannot tell much difference yet on that one. I however have studied health in humans for 12 years and have never seen anything like it in my life. I am doing a simple online report at highpointcompany.com but really should do one on what we tested on family. I knew from study that people were drinking. Years ago I watched backtoedenfilm.com and thought then if they ever figure out how to liquefy trees it would change agriculture and that is what this stuff is. Wish I could tell more - one thing I did forget was after the last real dry spell all the cracks that normally form on ground not covered with grass are gone. We have heavy clay soil.

 

[Highpoint]

i just throw seed on the ground

I am just learning grasses here and we have bermuda bluegrass srab grass and other native but have never seen the grass you show. What is it as it looks thick. Do cattle like it. We have some orchard grass and cattle eat last.

 

[ddd75]

i just throw seed on the ground

I am just learning grasses here and we have bermuda bluegrass srab grass and other native but have never seen the grass you show. What is it as it looks thick. Do cattle like it. We have some orchard grass and cattle eat last.

yes, thats some of the best quality forage you could ever see. Mix of some different fescues, orchard grasses, bluegrass, white and red clovers. Extremely high sugar content, soft leafed, no stems. My cows have sacks as big as dairy cattle they are producing so much milk. The calves are growing at a rate about twice as much as when they were on a KY31 / clover / OG mix. I might even send some samples in to the forage superbowl. That'd be cool to place in the top 3.

If your cattle aren't eating the orchardgrass then its probably an older variety. I hear that a lot. Any newer variety in the last 15 years your cattle will run to eat.

 

[Highpoint]

Can you tell me a little more. Probably the most important is making sure they are not genetically modified however with high sugar content mot sure they could be. The stuff I am trying out on pasture shows increase butter fat too and increase forage. I looked at the tests on vegetables and talked to a farmer who said root system was increased to help handle drought conditions and grasses should hold more moisture to reduce pest problems. The young man who sold me really knows more about wheat and soy as that is where their tests started however I would like to find out the best mixtures and the coop since I farm differently is not much help. Before we cleared the property the previous owner had horses and it was really bad. Then we let set for 7 years before hiring planes to spray as was a forest. Believe me I hated it as I am not into poisons of any kind. This is third year and weeds were so thick and mowing helped the grasses catch up and thicken some but there is still ground showing in places.

I said all of that to ask if you have a link to the grass mixture you speak about. By the way, it is the sugars in plants that are the commication system of the body and is missing in the food. The research online is glycans.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The more variety you have in the seed bank the better. This year crab grass out grew the coastal bermuda in my hay fields because of the rain. As long as the cows eat what grows and hold condition I'm happy.

 

[Highpoint]

i just throw seed on the ground

I am just learning grasses here and we have bermuda bluegrass srab grass and other native but have never seen the grass you show. What is it as it looks thick. Do cattle like it. We have some orchard grass and cattle eat last.

Love the picture and can see why cows are full. Would like the brand name of your orchard grass. The one from coop is 85 percent grass and 15 percent weeds.
yes, thats some of the best quality forage you could ever see. Mix of some different fescues, orchard grasses, bluegrass, white and red clovers. Extremely high sugar content, soft leafed, no stems. My cows have sacks as big as dairy cattle they are producing so much milk. The calves are growing at a rate about twice as much as when they were on a KY31 / clover / OG mix. I might even send some samples in to the forage superbowl. That'd be cool to place in the top 3.

If your cattle aren't eating the orchardgrass then its probably an older variety. I hear that a lot. Any newer variety in the last 15 years your cattle will run to eat.

 

[Highpoint]

Well messed up that post putting request in wrong spot.

 

[Texasmark]

I haven't soil tested in some time now. Probably before 2010 or so.

Why? Cost vs reward from the info gained.....economics.

The information gain would be used to grow vegetation to be consumed by amimals or be cut for hay to be fed to animals with any surplus hay to be sold. Dang, the thought of all that work makes me tired.

I can look out over my pastures that I used to manage heavily for hay purposes and pastures I tried to keep just one more animal on. What was the payout on that.....for the work involved....?

Well, I carried 30% more cows. Baled 110 to 140 acres of hay. Spent a lot of time on a tractor burning fuel and working on equipment. Spent time watching the weather looking for the right time to throw thousands of dollars worth of fertilizer out or find the perfect time to cut and bale the hay it was put on. Then came moving the hay to storage or making arrangements for someone to come get it....but couldn't come because the were going on vacation.

Think about the end game a bit. Are you better off doing all these things? Is what you end up getting paid to do these things actually worth the time, extra work, and monetary risk?

Let's take some east round numbers.

Say your able to run 100 cows under this senecio. Consensus seems to be $450 to $500 yearly carrying cost per cow. Average that to $47500. Let's even give you 100 525 lb calves to sell today and your going to get $1.50 a pound commission free.....$78750.00........ yea! I made $31000......oops. I forgot about the 100 rolls of hay sold at $10 over cost. Or a lot less......$32000...... whoop

But what if you could carry 70 cows and forget about the hay. Never mind, I don't need 18 tons of fertilizer. Major equipment problem is the batteries in the tractors because it hasn't been cranked in a month. Instead of using 900 gallons of tractor fuel a year you can get by on less than 300.

55,125 - 32,250 = 21,875. But your work load went from about 1560 hours to about 520 or less.

Think about that for a bit....

That's how the feed-lot boys did on the place across from me. Leased land, minimum maint. of everything (fence included), get them up once a year and pull off the calves and worm the rest........

 

[Stocker Steve]

Think about the end game a bit. Are you better off doing all these things? Is what you end up getting paid to do these things actually worth the time, extra work, and monetary risk?

That thinkin thing can be harder than making small squares... :?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Intensive pasture management and 2X stocking rates can pay off - - but the periods of high beef prices are so fleeting that it is not practical for most. Another approach is a pasture/low input grain rotation that builds soil fertility and avoids some of the inputs specialized grain guys have to buy. The boys at the Dickinson ND university farm are pushing this.

The University of Kentucky has some excellent stockpiling spreadsheets to look at stocking rate/hay needed trade offs for a beef only operation. They even try to capture labor costs. :shock: By changing cow size and weaning weights for each segment of your herd you can get better insight on profitability. You may find that the poorest group of cows in your string are not making you any money...

If you like cattle, improved pasture, and some time off - - then I think stockering is a good end game. Yearlings go in August, the pastures rests, and you buy back after hunting is over. :idea:

 

[Highpoint]

Well a real newby here but trying out a different approach. Spot sprayed for brush then in May we began spraying fulvic with microbes. The microbes were provided with product and we grew them in 5 gallons of water with brown sugar for a week. After first spray there was a big difference in height of new grass. We had good rain then short drought. They normally put 1 cow to 10 acres here and even though we had 8 cows and a bull on 60 acres we mowed tops so grass could get sun. We also used as test for flies because flies are horrible in this area. The cattle across the road had to be sprayed every three days where these could go seven to ten days. They used a different spray however. I used mineral oil cedar wood oil and fulvic. The goal is high brix level which does not go by fertilizer numbers. So we shall see.

Interesting.

Was this expensive?

Just saw this and I am not sure as we have never added anything to the soil. The fulvic sales for $360 for five gallons and not sure what your shipping would be as I pick up at church in Arkansas City, KS.

I started a test site at http://www.highpointcompany.com and have not been able to add much but it has the guys name and phone number on front page. The lab tests is also on the front page. I also started mixing and spraying on the hay brought in for the calves they are weaning and noticed the scours stopped fairly quick.

Just not there yet in the way of a test as my family have put so many animals on the land and right now there are 96 calves that weigh 500 - 700 lbs on the 70 acres. They do feed daily and the cattle have not eaten all the left over grass as yet but they will probably be on the ground until January.