Pasture breeding vs. AI

[Medic24]

To all you folks out there that have switched from pasture breeding to AI, may I ask, what you now find works better for you? I am trying to calculate keeping a bull, vs AI fees for appox. 12 cows.... which would be cheaper?

Also, what is your routine to get all your open cows synchronized so that it maybe a one time visit to the farm for the AI tech? Or is that just a dream?

I have a great, young Black angus bull with terrific conformation here now, BUT there is a problem....I just purchased several of his half-sisters, who have shown some line breeding defects. Also, I have collected a number of different breed cattle that I wish to breed with something other then this angus, ie: Longhorns, Highland, and Watusi cattle... (yes, I know what you are thinking....but the price has been right for these odd balls that are not common around here, no one else wanted) and I think I want to keep the breed pure for the highland and the watusi (as ugly as they are )

Plus, white face baldies are the highest valued cattle in our area now, so me think it's time to breed the defects out of these angus and try a polled hereford bull (via AI)with the goal in mind of getting a few black baldies to show for it.......

Any thoughts?

 

[Jake]

figure 20 semen from a real good bull

$1500 fairly decent bull
divide by 12 cows
=
$125
divide by 3 years
=
$41 per cow without calculating feed costs


for a $1500 bull it takes 7 years of production to make it less expensive semen wise than AI- now this is not calculating injury, feed, fence, syncrozation products or AI tech costs....

Just what I figure...

 

[Bez]

medic24

We do both.

On our place we use Estrumate. I am a bit particular as to who handles this drug - none of the ladies here are allowed to touch it as there is a possibility of absorption through the skin in event of a spill.

We round up the girls we want to AI. We run them through the chute and give them shot #1. Then we turn them out and start watching. As soon as we see them bulling we put the selectee in the chute for her breeding. We generally catch about 20% ready to breed on the first needle.

Then we run the rest through the chute in - I think it is ten days - have to check the bottle for the directions - and give those who have not cycled their second shot.

Then we start watching again. Almost always the second shot gets the remainder cycling within a day or two. We AI them as they show ready and turn them all out onto pasture.

Whatever is left over gets run in the chute and mass bred on day three after the second shot.

Note: Wife and I discussed this but cannot remeber the exact times - we have no Estrumate in the house at present.

So .... One shot - catch those showing heat and breed. Second shot - catch and breed - some time later - as per drug directions - mass breed those you have not yet bred. It's quite easy if you follow the directions.

Two weeks later we turn the bull in to catch those who the tech missed. We generally run around 70 - 80% catch on AI. The bull gets the rest.

We always run a black bull in with the AI group - that way we know who is who in the zoo.

As for keeping a bull?

Well, we probably all know someone who has one - and yet does not need one. For a few cows you could try a neighbour, or a friend with one you might like.

As well, one must remember - there is always one animal that does not want to seem to AI successfully. For some reason the bull never seems to have a problem with that success - volume of semen perhaps? Or does he just "know" when the time is right?

12 cows is a tough number - I figure 15 - 20 minimum to justify the cost of purchase. Rent from a breeder? Some might do this - but usually you have to "hit them in the mood".

Tech charges us 14 bucks to visit - seems like he is always here when we are breeding. Best day we had last year was 4 cows ready at the same time.

I am sure there are a bunch of questins - and I know I do not have all the answers - but I would be sure to ask around the country if I were you. One thing - if you do rent or borrow a bull - make darned sure it is healthy - never hurts to have it vet checked before you take it home and quarantine it prior to letting him have his fun. It might keep you from loosing some calves.

Best regards

Bez

 

[greenwillowherefords]

figure 20 semen from a real good bull

$1500 fairly decent bull
divide by 12 cows
=
$125
divide by 3 years
=
$41 per cow without calculating feed costs


for a $1500 bull it takes 7 years of production to make it less expensive semen wise than AI- now this is not calculating injury, feed, fence, syncrozation products or AI tech costs....

Just what I figure...

As a small producer who actually has tried both ways, let me say that with the busy life you already have, Medic, I don't recomend the sleepless nights of checking for standing heat, and trying to coordinate all your regular activities with a techs. A good bull just does the job while you sleep and work.

Jake, you are forgetting something. I gave $1300 for the 092 bull. I used him two years, traded him for the 20F bull, used him one season, sold him at 8 years old on the market for $1162. It cost me about two hundred dollars when you count the fees for selling etc, plus feed, hay, and medicine to have a bull for three years. Yes, I have to replace him, but basically if you work it right, you have only the initial cost and maintenance. We had little success with AI.

Medic, I think you are right on track looking for a Hereford bull.

 

[dun]

I don't recomend the sleepless nights of checking for standing heat

Granted I'm a new comer to AI, only been doing it 100% since the late 60's, but what's with the "sleepless nights checking for standing heat"?
I heat check for about 1/2 an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening. We don;t synch., we just breed them as the come.
Rather then hiring a tech., go to a good AI school and learn to do it yourself.
Barring that, a local large animal vet ro a a technician can/should be able to owrk you in as they come into heat. If you have to pay a farm call each time it gets pricey. For a synch protocol there are a bunch of different ones, most run around 60%-70% first service conceptions. That's far poorer then a natural heat. If you're going to end up keeping a clean up bull, you've pretty much shot any possible savings from AI. If you have a concern with inbreeding, just get a good bull that isn't related to any of your animals and let him have at it. If he's a virgin bull have him at the minimum given a BSE, if he's been used anywhere before, a BSE and a solid health check for STDs at a minimum.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OK Dun, I give. You used that term before - what is it? STD

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

STD? Is Sexually transmitted disease

 

[redangus]

A BULL's nose don't miss.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, DUH, what was I thinking. Thanks.

 

[Craig-TX]

This is another one of those questions where more than one answer can be right. You've just got to figure out what the right answer is for you and your setup. We've always used bulls 100% but that's because of time more than anything else. Someday I might take the classes and learn to do it. I think it would be interesting to learn about and it would be fun to match different bulls with certain cows. But for now and for the foreseeable future it will be bulls.

Craig-TX

 

[greenwillowherefords]

A BULL's nose don't miss.

Right! And I firmly believe a bull will BRING them in heat with his behaviour.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have been 100% AI for 30 years (until 2004). But the research I have read says that just the bull "sounds" will help bring cows in faster, and having a bull with them helps decreased time til estrus even better.

 

[Medic24]

Hey all, thanks for the replys, it seems as though no matter, a follow up bull will likely be the best way to go, in my opinion, as humble and ignorant as it may be, an open cow is losing money for me, especially at the hay ring and feed trough. So, I can't really afford to miss any with just AI. Am I about right?

The good thing about herefords around here is, they don't sell very high, so a hereford bull will not likely cost near as much as an Angus.....hurray for small favors.........

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The good thing about herefords around here is, they don't sell very high

Yes, but if the bull doesn't sell high, don't you think you're calves will be also worth less when you go to sell them? Of course, if you think you will get most of your cows bred AI & will only need the bull for a couple of cows, than you're not looking at a great amount of money.

Good luck with the AI program. It can be VERY rewarding.

 

[certherfbeef]

I have been 100% AI for 30 years (until 2004). But the research I have read says that just the bull "sounds" will help bring cows in faster, and having a bull with them helps decreased time til estrus even better.

Several breeders around here use a "gomer bull". They use CIDRS and AI everything. While they are AI'ing, the gomer is at work. All the qualities of a bull, but no danger of breeding the cows.
Believe me, by the time AI season is over, Gomer is ready for a nap!

Not too often does the bull have much to do. But is still there to clean up when he needs to.

 

[Tod Dague]

We use CIDERs and AI everything. I get about 60% the first go around then AI a second time. After that we usually retain our best bull from the year before for clean up then sell him latter. I've only limited experience at AI so I'm a little unsure as to my skills yet. I seam to be doing better every year. This year we are flushing a couple of cows and that is giving me allot of practice. We have yet to have an unfertilized embryo as of yet. I hope to have better success rates this year.

 

[tvc]

Hi all,
Just new to the board and was wondering what the secret is to successful AI breeding is? Nutrition? minerals? I would like some Great Ideas..
thanks

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Hi all,
Just new to the board and was wondering what the secret is to successful AI breeding is? Nutrition? minerals? I would like some Great Ideas..
thanks

Welcome! There are many who've had far better luck than I with AI, but I do know that it is a combination of nutrition, mineral, synchronization, and timing. We used a breeders cube that was over or about 30% protein, and used lutalyse to bring them in.

 

[dun]

Probably the single biggest key to success with AI is the heat detection process and timing of the insemination. Good nutrition will get the cycling, but if you don;t get the stuff there in the righ time window, you might as well either burn your money or squirt it on the ground.

dun

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Probably the single biggest key to success with AI is the heat detection process and timing of the insemination. Good nutrition will get the cycling, but if you don;t get the stuff there in the righ time window, you might as well either burn your money or squirt it on the ground.

dun

The tech who did it for me said if he'd had it to do over, he would have done two breedings per heat instead of one since we were having trouble settling. If we'd tried it one more time instead of buying the 092 bull, we would have tried that method. But it was getting too late in the year for me to take chances, so I went to the sure-fire method, a self propelled, heat inducing, heat detecting, natural insemination animal called a real bull!