Paints

[Alan]

I'm courious if anyone knows more of the history of the Paint horse? I have read the origin of the paint on the APHA web site but I felt it was a little vague. Are the roots of the Paint horse any more than taking some crop out Quarterhorse and starting the APHA? Again I have read the history of paints off the APHA web site, but other than saying some ladies in Texas started it in the early 1960's and that the Pinto assoc. was first but they wanted to keep the stock type horse so they started the APSHA (american paint stock horse assoc.) which became tha APHA.

The AQHA is much older then the APHA, are the Paints of today nothing more than the crop out of yesterday?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[rj_lecompte]

did you try to look at other websites on paint horses? APHA sends a magazine out every month or so and tells about paints. Iam sure some where there's something. if i find anything i'll let you know.

 

[Ryan]

My Equine teacher told me this morning that the APHA was created for Quarter Horses with too much white, and they are stock type horses only.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Here's the APHA website link.

http://www.apha.com/

Take care.

 

[Ellie May]

But I thought they let Thourghbreds (spelled) and arabians in the APHA too? Maybe not just wondering? Also I'd like to know you can't reg. a horse in both the AQHA and APHA can you? And why do some people even if the horse comes out of a paint but ddoesn't have any color on it still reg. under the APHA? If I got a paint and bred it to my QH would I reg. it under the APHA or the AQHA? Just wondering sorry so many questions.
Ellie May

 

[Alan]

Ellie I'll try to answer your questions;

First you have the APHA, American Paint Horse Assoc., It is a breed all its own, they allow only Quarter horses in to the mix, but the Quarter Horse can be an appendix QH or have Thouroughbred in it, but the TB comes from the QH side. Lots of paints bred to QH's...lots.

Second you have the American Pinto horse Assoc. which is a color regristry (sp). Meaning any horse with enough white on it can be regristered with the Pinto Assoc. Arabs crosses, Paints, Saddlebreds, Mini's, etc.

If you get a solid colored or min. white on your Paint horse than it is still regristered as an American Paint Horse, but it's called a "Breeding Stock" Paint (which get very little respect in the paint world). But you can still breed them and get a colored baby (regristered).

The AQHA and the APHA are always changing thier rules on what can be regristered, how much white,etc., but for the most part, you can not have double regristered horse, but there are some out there that slipped through the loop holes one of the assoc. didn't close for a year or so. Both assoc. just changed the rules again in the beginning of 2004 so that you can't have double regristered horse.

Before 2004 a QH bred to a QH that produces a foal with too much white could be regristered under both QH and Paint assoc. That foal is called a "crop out" Quarter horse. again, I'm under the impression that the APHA changed that in 2004 to not allow crop outs to be regristered with them. QH assoc. has stated that crop outs are undesirable as did Paints, but as of 2003 they could be doubled regristered...how can that be undesirable? Again I have not kept up with the last rule change with crop outs but I believe that is how it is.

If you bred a paint to your Quarter Horse it could only be regristered under APHA (paint).

Hope I covered all your questions

Alan

 

[Tawni]

Hi!
Most of the info by Alan is pretty much correct.But some of it isn't.I own a APHA stallion,just to let you know-so hopefully I won't be too wrong!lol!
APHA accepts AQHA,appendix & regular registered,and ALSO JC Thoroughbreds.(of which I have two bred to the APHA paint stallion).They do not accept any other breeds.No Arabians,etc.
And the rules have changed in both the AQHA & APHA lately.Not only with the AQHA allowing perlinos & cremellos,but also lots of white rule changes.Lately I have read that they are going to do an breeding stock-like registration for the AQHA's foals (out of two AQHA parents) with too much white.And APHA has now closed the doors on "cropouts" from AQHA & Thoroughbreds.One parent HAS to be an APHA registered parent for the foal to be registered.
Everything else was correct!
Now for some food for thought on the origins of paints.There are tons of APHA paints that go back to unregistered paints way in the background & early days.It is thought that a lot of those were descendants of mustangs,and native american,and even spanish horses(probably all the same-but you get my drift).So way back in the APHA paint breed,hard telling what was in there besides color!They did some of the same stuff the early AQHA people did.Would actually go out & evaluate the horses for registration too.Until it eventually closed up to,allowing only registered APHA,and cropouts from the AQHA & JC,and now has closed to having one parent APHA.

Tawni

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Thank you all for your informative inputs! Tawni--nice horses! I really had to study that picture of Jimmers Isle Breeze--the one where it looks like he is doing gymnastics! I thought the human leg was his near foreleg and he had an extra head peeking through (his actual leg) Was this your training and has it been handy for mounting a 16HH horse?

 

[Tawni]

Thank you all for your informative inputs! Tawni--nice horses! I really had to study that picture of Jimmers Isle Breeze--the one where it looks like he is doing gymnastics! I thought the human leg was his near foreleg and he had an extra head peeking through (his actual leg) Was this your training and has it been handy for mounting a 16HH horse?

Hi
I am still new at this and figuring out stuff...so excuse me if something ends up in a weird place.
But THANKS for the appreciation of my inputs,and the compliment on my horses!I never noticed that about the picture of Breeze before!!lol!How funny!He is actually all the way on one knee..but practically has his forehead pressed to the ground too...all for a treat!!lol!Yes,I was the one who raised him,taught him goofy stuff,as well as greenbroke him.But I ended up selling him to a nice lady in Weatherford,Tx.He is actually pulling a cart & in the future a carriage for her,as well as standing stud!He is an AWESOME boy.My heart is half filled with sadness for having to sell him,and half complete happiness when I think of how good he is & where he ended up.The link to where he is now is http://www.merettranch.com
It sounds like you went to my site(my first one!eeee!)Did you check out the foals page?There is a few more pictures of him there.He is actually a very rare frosty roan.He is a true roan,with no grey in the background.But he is rare that even his head & legs are roan...and roans aren't supposed to do that!He is also by a bay roan mare,and a black from nothing but blacks sire.How weird huh?
I don't see the link to my site anywhere here.Could you tell me how you found it?I know I typed it in,but can't see it for some reason.Thanks

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

He's sure something special!
Your site shows in your signature and also a link at the bottom of your posts.

 

[Alan]

Hi Tawni, Thanks for the corretion, the APHA and the AQHA are changing rules so often that I don't keep up as well as I should. Mostly I don't keep up because I don't agree with some of the rule changes and their rules about breeding stocks. Lots of very nice breeding stocks that get gelded because of their color (or lack of it).

What is a "JC Thoroughbred"? was not aware the APHA allowed in Thoroughbred at all.

Finally, to corret myself, Paints can also regristered with the pinto horse assoc., therefore they can be double regristered in that respect.

Thanks, nice web site,

Alan

 

[Tawni]

Hi Guys
Thanks for compliment on Breeze(know known as Deuce).And for pointing out the signature at the bottom.For some reason I am used to them being underlined or a different color--what a dork!!lol!
Thanks to Alan too.I totally agree with you on the colored rules for both AQHA & APHA.Though I think AQHA is advanceing & opening thier eyes and rules to their own horses finally.But disagree with the APHA people closeing off the books so soon.There is a LOT of really good colored thoroughbreds out there now.And it would be nice to be able to double register at least the AQHA with a little too much white,also be in the APHA.But oh well,guess to have to lay rules down somewhere.Or else it would be a free for all.I wouldn't want to be the person having to figure it all out.PLus I Hate Rules!lol!!
Did you know that they have lots of programs for breeeding stock paints?Especially in the racing side,I know that there are Breeding stock Champions,etc.So isn't all bad.Plus there are even Breeding Stock stallions standing at stud,most a lot better bred than colored ones!So all isn't too bad.
And JC stands for Jockey Club.As is The Jockey Club.That's what it says on my Thoroughbred mares papers.The JC is what makes a thoroughbred registered.It is not called the Thoroughbred Registery for some reason.APHA accepts Jockey Club papers,and now my TB mares actually have their Texas Paint Horse Breeders Certificates so any foals registered by them and an APHA paint are eligible for all the extra money in Texas races.AS are also the mares when their foals win 1,2,3rd in any races in Texas.
I remember for some reason when I first got into paints that I also thought that Arabians could be crossed to get APHA paints-but was wrong!!Though a lot of other colored breeds do allow them.Matter of fact...does anybody know if Appaloosa's allow arabians??I know for sure they allow AQHA's,but now am wondering about the TB's and Arabians??
Oh,and thanks for the compliment on the site!
And last but not least-HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Tawni

 

[Jen39503]

I just got my registration papers for my AHPA breeding stock filly. DH and i were trying to figure out exactly what that means.
What would i breed her to, how would that foal be registered? If we wanted to show her would she be put in the "breeding stock" class only?
Thanks for any info y'all can give me
Thanks
Jen
She has an incredible bloodline and it would be such a waste for her only claim to fame is "just a breeding stock" horse

 

[Tawni]

I just got my registration papers for my AHPA breeding stock filly. DH and i were trying to figure out exactly what that means.
What would i breed her to, how would that foal be registered? If we wanted to show her would she be put in the "breeding stock" class only?
Thanks for any info y'all can give me
Thanks
Jen
She has an incredible bloodline and it would be such a waste for her only claim to fame is "just a breeding stock" horse

Hi Jen
Well-she is APHA-Anything she is bred to will be APHA.So should be able to be bred to other APHA,AQHA,and Jockey Club Thoroughbred sires.Depending on what you are looking for in a foal.Also very interesting about certain breeding stocks,especially out of overo lines,is that they can produce color even when bred to other solids.Breeding stock from Tobiano can't because it is a dominant trait,if the have it they show it.What is her background as far as colors?And even breeding if you feel like saying
And as far as showing,you are right in thinking she can only be shown in breeding stock classes.But that is not really that bad at all.She can still earn points etc.A lot of people recognize how very valuable they are!And especially mares.

Tawni

 

[Alan]

Hi Jen,

If you read my post you saw that I did not like the rules the APHA has for Breeding Stock, but Tawni is correct that in APHA shows she can only be shown against other Breeding stock fillies and mares, which is better than the breeding stock gelding and colts have it. But she can be shown in other open shows not affiliated with the APHA, also if she has been nominated she may be shown at any futurity affiliated with or without the APHA.

She has an incredible bloodline and it would be such a waste for her only claim to fame is "just a breeding stock" horse

It's certainly not her only claim to fame, I have a great breeding stock gelding that I'm just starting, he'll be a great horse, to die for temperment and not much spook to him, and very well put together and smooth.

Depending on your horses color genes (as Tawni stated) and whats out there she could throw some nice colored babies for you. I would breed to a loud colored stud to get a better shot a enough white. Go to http://www.barlink.com They have a couple of world class halter stallions right now, Barlink Macho Man Two is an Overo, One touch is a breeding stock Stallion that won some big shows in Texas. Not much color difference in the two.

How is your filly bred?

Alan

 

[Jen39503]

Tawni,
Thanks for answering so quickly!!
Her bloodline:
Her dam is Hy Moon Tina (complete pedigree is shown on http://www.allbreedpedigree.com
The dams bloodline includes War Admiral, Man O'War, Olympia Joe, Boston Mac, Two Eyed Jack and quite a few more well known horses.
The sire is B Line Wayne, who is pretty much unknown. He was used mostly because he is a black and white tobiano.
He is also listed on http://www.allbreedpedigree.com On her papers from the sire side we have The spotlighter, bandits dollarsign, mr poco torino, chip a te go. Also found three bars, impressive and man o'war way way back.

There is a strong thoroughbred and quarter horse influence.
Her dam is a sorrel overo. Fancy is a chestnut solid.
Hope this helps some,
Jen

 

[Jen39503]

Shes now updated on allbreed. You can see her full pedigree here http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... d=Standard

LOL, just ignore that mouthful of a name. Sure hope she lives up to it,lol

 

[Tawni]

Well-OMG! You have got my attention now for sure!!I LOOVVEE old race lines.I actually have heard of B Line Wayne because I was chasing down Cripple Chick & even Buddy Pinta-both on his mothers side.And you can't say anything bad about The Spotlighter!And on your filly's mother side-WOW again!I am a fan of CMF Hy Moon-he is bred best of the best,and from what I have heard & read about him,has not only conformation but a brilliant mind to boot!I hope your filly takes after her mothers side really.And I guess I don't have to mention that Boston Mac is downthere too!!WOOOWW!!lol!That's really awesome!
IN Texas??If you are-I got a nice race bred homozygous paint,extremely well bred,and has a VERY sweet mind on him,as well as a big rear!lol!
You seem like you like to talk horses & stuff.I am part of a really nice & informative group that shares pictures,ideas,even have some really educated people there too.It's http://groups.yahoo.com/PaintedHorses/
I think you would fit in great there!They love to talk about breeding,colors,bloodlines etc.

Tawni

 

[Jen39503]

Did you know that CMF HY Moons name is BIll, lol...We've talked to Kristen a few times. We took a trip to Texas in July and were going to go further west to Midland to meet Kristen and BIll but it just didnt fit in to the timeframe.
I'll head over to the site tonight and chat. Thanks for inviting me. So their bloodline is pretty impressive, huh? (no pun intended, lol). Can you believe we bought these horses, sight unseen? I about killed my DH when he told me (he works in iraq and bought them from a driver, lol) but now i wouldnt give them up for the world.
Jen