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Overseeding Pasture

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dawnrogerl

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I need some advise on over seeding some land for pasture. I have 3ea. - 4 acre tracts that I want to rotate as pasture. The land has not been tilled for 10-15 years and is in North Carolina. It is in very poor condition. The present growth on it is a mix that the cattle will eat except for the sage grass. There is a lot of it. We sent in a soil sample and the land needs about 250 lbs of N & Potash per acre. I am also told that the N will take care of the sage grass problem. I don't think that I should put that much fertilizer on at one time, (plus I probably could not afford to). I do not know the max. that I can put on without killing the grass I have. I will be seeding it to Bermuda and in the fall I will over seed one partial to rye. Here are some of my questions.
1. How much should I put on at one time?
2. How long do I need to wait before turning the cattle in after fertilizing?
3. What about any problem with the cattle grazing pasture that a large amount of N has been applied?
4. Will over seeding rye in the fall effect the growth of the Bermuda and other grass in the spring?

Your comments will be appreciated. Thanks
 

kenny thomas

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I think you should re-read the soil tests. If you are saying that it needs 250lb of actual nitrogen since nitrogen is 34-0-0 it would take almost 800lb per acre. With potash being 0-0-46 it would take almost 600 lb per acre. I don't think that is possible.
What was the PH? Lime may be needed before any fertilize is added.
If you can post what the soil test says including the PH.
 
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dawnrogerl

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Thanks for the reply Kenny. unfortunately I am reading it correct. It was also read by our county agent and the local fertilizer company. I have misplaced the actual letter and need to get another copy of it. It called for 250 lbs of N, something like 175 lbs. Phosphoric Acid or Potash. ( I can't remember which. I will have to get another copy" It did not need any lime. I am told that this is why there is so much sage grass and also there are large areas that basically nothing is growing. The soil makeup has a lot of clay. We do not have a county agent at this time, so am looking elsewhere for help. The man at the fertilizer company told me it would cost about $2,000. for 6 acres. I can not afford to spend that much all at once. I was thinking about putting about 100 or 150 lbs. per acre once a year for several years. Another way would be to concentrate on one pasture at a time and be able to apply more to that pasture. Of course I would test it each year. Do you think that would do much good? Also can you help me with any of my other questions? Your help will be appreciated. Thanks
 

c farmer

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kenny thomas":12ippq66 said:
Lime may be needed before any fertilize is added.
If you can post what the soil test says including the PH.

If your lime is low the fertlizer will not work like it should, I read that a ph of 5 you will lose 50% of the fertlizer.
 
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dawnrogerl

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Thanks All:
I found the soil sample report. I will try to post it. Again Thanks
What you see below is not the way it shows up on my screen. I can not get it to attach or copy right. The recommendations read. Lime=0, N=120-200, P2/O5=90-110, K2O=120-140.

NCDA&CS Agronomic Division Phone: (919)733-2655 Web Site: http://www.ncagr.com/agronomi/ Report No: 37627
Soil Test Report
Grower:
Jackson, NC 27845
Copies To:
Farm:
Northampton County
Agronomist Comments
Lesenry, Roger
6805 NC 305 Hwy
6805
SERVING N.C. RESIDENTS FOR OVER 60 YEARS
C -- 12
05/30/2007
Applied Lime Recommendations
Sample No.
Field Information
Last Crop Mo Yr T/A Crop or Year
FRONT 1st Crop:
2nd Crop:
Fes/OG/Tim,M
Fes/OG/Tim,M
Lime N P2O5 K2O Mg Cu Zn B Mn See Note
.9T
0 0
12
12
Test Results
Soil Class HM% CEC BS% Ac p H P-I K-I Ca% Mg% Mn-AI(1) Mn-AI(2) Zn-I Zn-AI Cu-I S-I SS-I NO3-N NH4-N Na
MIN 0.51 4.4 61.0 1.7 5.4 16 8 46.0 14.0 40 40 30 30 34 29 0.0
120-200 0
120-200
90-110
90-110
120-140
120-140
0
0
0
0
.0
.0
0
0
Mn-I
39
W/V
1.25
S
0
0
Applied Lime Recommendations
Sample No.
Field Information
Last Crop Mo Yr T/A Crop or Year
BACK 1st Crop:
2nd Crop:
Fes/OG/Tim,M
Fes/OG/Tim,M
Lime N P2O5 K2O Mg Cu Zn B Mn See Note
0
0 0
12
12
Test Results
Soil Class HM% CEC BS% Ac p H P-I K-I Ca% Mg% Mn-AI(1) Mn-AI(2) Zn-I Zn-AI Cu-I S-I SS-I NO3-N NH4-N Na
MIN 0.27 4.9 84.0 0.8 5.9 14 14 65.0 17.0 53 53 31 31 57 23 0.0
 

Douglas

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The nitrogen recommendation is always the same regardless of your soil and is somewhat meaningless. P and K are different and are very helpful. What you have to decide is the cost vs. the benefit. I would only put the N out that I needed for grazing or to make hay before switching to Bermuda. Normally you want to put it out in a couple applications since most grass can only us so much at a time, and if you get a big rain you can lose some of it, so splitting it is less risky. Without seeing your pasture it is hard to tell its quality.
But if you are going to break it up and plant Bermuda, I would put very little of anything on it now. Save the fertilizer for the new Bermuda you plan to put in. What I would do is research growing Bermuda grass and look at the recommendation there for timing and amount of fertilizer applications.
Over seeding rye is not much of a problem since it will die out before the Bermuda get going next spring around here especially if you can graze it close in March. Ryegrass is another story and i would not recommed it for your first year.
I live in central NC and familiar with our soil reports. If you PM me your name I can go look at your report online and give you a better recommendation.
From your 2nd post it looks like you do need lime at .9 tons, but it also looks like you requested information for maintaining fescue grass (cool season) and not establishing Bermuda (warm season) which is what you really need.
 

kenny thomas

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Looks like you read it correctly. I have never had a recomendation for nitrogen that high though. It would be very costly but nitrogen is cheep this year compared to P and K.
Less than 1 ton of lime the cost outways the benefit is why it is not recommended.
If I remember correctly potash is what you need to get rid of the broom sage not nitrogen.
It will be hard to improve it all in the first year so I would spend as much as I could afford on one or two paddocks and when I got them where I wanted them to be move on to the next ones.
 

cowman30

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dawnrogerl":wcgqz7o8 said:
I need some advise on over seeding some land for pasture. I have 3ea. - 4 acre tracts that I want to rotate as pasture. The land has not been tilled for 10-15 years and is in North Carolina. It is in very poor condition. The present growth on it is a mix that the cattle will eat except for the sage grass. There is a lot of it. We sent in a soil sample and the land needs about 250 lbs of N & Potash per acre. I am also told that the N will take care of the sage grass problem. I don't think that I should put that much fertilizer on at one time, (plus I probably could not afford to). I do not know the max. that I can put on without killing the grass I have. I will be seeding it to Bermuda and in the fall I will over seed one partial to rye. Here are some of my questions.
1. How much should I put on at one time?
2. How long do I need to wait before turning the cattle in after fertilizing?
3. What about any problem with the cattle grazing pasture that a large amount of N has been applied?
4. Will over seeding rye in the fall effect the growth of the Bermuda and other grass in the spring?

Your comments will be appreciated. Thanks

1. I have put on upwards of 300 pounds per acre of triple 19 and some years triple 17 and never had an issue with burning it up.
2. I try not to hit em with the fertilizer spreader as I am going by.
3. You should really only worry about that if you dont have a good mineral program or if it is drought stressed. I have never had cows get nitrate poisoning. Of course I have always tested the forage (sudex, millet, Etc for nitrates before I turned em on it.)
4. NO, I would come in with a sod planter though and sod plant the rye or broad cast it and dont break the ground.
 

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