Over-Conditioning

[inyati13]

During late summer and with the dry weather, I was able to bring down some of the conditioning on my cows. Now I am not so sure. Yesterday, I spent a long evening in my herd. I concluded that whatever condition they lost has returned. All of them except a couple have excess condition.

It has been raining for about 10 days and the cooler weather has the grass growing rapidly. I have two heifers that I will breed in December/January. They are in a small lot of maybe an acre at the most. They are not getting anything except Vitafirm mineral. Those two heifers have really put on weight. If you walk the lot they are in, you would swear they have to be starving to death.

What to he$$ is going on. I have had them separated all summer because I did not want the big cows riding them when that are in estrus. I am about to give up on the idea that I can control their condition.

 

[dun]

It;s really pretty simple. Your genetics are those that would be classified as "easy keeping" and you have the grass for them to utilize. We are in the same boat, and I'll admit I like it. Come winter they will stay in better condition without resorting to supplements and will (ours do anyway) breed back after calving earlier. They still wean above average calves so not to worry. I used to have the same concerns, but as long as you are selecting for bulls that are not fat ball producers, just relax and enjoy it.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

:lol: Or get more cows :nod:

 

[KNERSIE]

:lol: Or get more cows :nod:

Yup, or leave the calves on the cows for longer.

 

[kenny thomas]

A friend here has the same problems. He was one of the first here to start rotational grazing and has added both red and white clovers for the last 20 years. They have extra hay or extra grass but are at the number of cows they want to keep so there is always extra. The cows have became so big they seem to have a lot of foot problems. Other than adding numbers I have not had any ideas.

 

[highgrit]

Inyati, your soil is perfect for growing the forage you have. I'm sure your protein and TDN is better than what most of us have. I know the better my land gets the better the weaning weights are. Everything works better when a cows can graze for 2-3 hours and lay down any chew their cud in the shade.

 

[dun]

When you get several inches of snow and the cows are wandering around with the snow not melting off their backs you'll come to appreciate the ease the put on cover.

 

[3waycross]

Sounds like you have pinpointed part of the reason for the rash of oversize calves you have experienced lately. If you are not willing to increase numbers it sounds like you need to restrict access, which of course will make your pastures look like something you don't like.

Catch 22 buddy.

 

[jerry27150]

would love your problem. some cows stay fat always & some stay thin always, nothing I would ever worry about. I like easy keepers

 

[branguscowgirl]

Ron, I feel your frustration. My cattle and pasture are the same as what you deal with. I am slowly adding more cattle but I am picky, and will only keep or breed my best which are "easy keepers." I don't want any whispy hard keeping Brangus. My goal is to better the breed, not set it back. If I have too many out there, I would have to feed them in the winter months. I would like to avoid that, so they will just have to be fat and happy! ;-)
FWIW I am really not seeing any higher birth weights than usual due to the good feed. I have had 100# calves out of these same cows living on dry pasture. With 80# calves on the lush pasture. I am thinking it is more about the bulls being used. I am beginning to understand how the EPD's on them can be very deceiving.

 

[Jake]

It just comes down to the nutritional requirement of your cows are just exceeded. The only fixes are limit feeding or changing the genetics of the cows. I know we've hashed this out before but more cows isn't always the answer as having more out there doesn't change they way the individuals use the forage it only changed the herds total consumption.

 

[dun]

It just comes down to the nutritional requirement of your cows are just exceeded. The only fixes are limit feeding or changing the genetics of the cows. I know we've hashed this out before but more cows isn't always the answer as having more out there doesn't change they way the individuals use the forage it only changed the herds total consumption.

Thank you for stating what so many people seem to miss.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Simple solution.

I'll send my skinny "hard-doers" to you for condition and you send your bloated bovines to me to trim down.

Problems solved for both of us.

 

[inyati13]

It just comes down to the nutritional requirement of your cows are just exceeded. The only fixes are limit feeding or changing the genetics of the cows. I know we've hashed this out before but more cows isn't always the answer as having more out there doesn't change they way the individuals use the forage it only changed the herds total consumption.

I noticed that two of the cows continued to gain weight even when I had them on restricted access during late summer. As you point out, cows are like people: Their metabolism is to a large extent dictated by their genome. Some people keep gaining weight on diets that other people would starve to death on.

The problem that worries me on intense grazing is damage to the land. 60 % of my pasture is on steep terrain by most people's standards. I worry about creating rills and gullies when the cover is not heavy enough to break down the energy of some of our late fall downpours like we have been getting for the past two weeks. I have had this discussion with Fire Sweep Ranch. But she does not realize what a steep pasture looks like. Why? Because she posted a picture of a slope she was mowing and called it a hill. :lol: :lol: Some of my slopes put me in mind of that first big drop on a roller coaster thrill ride at an amusement park!!!

Had a guy out yesterday that looked at some of the slopes I mow. He saw right off that you don't go down those without four-wheel drive!!!

 

[AllForage]

:lol: Or get more cows :nod:

Yup, or leave the calves on the cows for longer.

I agree and with fall calving you are always going to have this problem. Open cows grazing spring/summer? What else would happen? Make em calve spring and nurse longer into winter. You should be able to control them better then.

 

[Jake]

:lol: Or get more cows :nod:

Yup, or leave the calves on the cows for longer.

I agree and with fall calving you are always going to have this problem. Open cows grazing spring/summer? What else would happen? Make em calve spring and nurse longer into winter. You should be able to control them better then.

I would argue that fall calving cows are the most inefficient system there is. People around our area do it for labor reason or because they have cows that didn't breed on time to calf in the spring. But you watch those cows lay around all summer getting fat and then you have to put the feed in front of them when they are trying to raise a calf instead of them getting it on there own. COMPLETELY backwards system. But we have some as well, I just hate them

 

[inyati13]

Yup, or leave the calves on the cows for longer.

I agree and with fall calving you are always going to have this problem. Open cows grazing spring/summer? What else would happen? Make em calve spring and nurse longer into winter. You should be able to control them better then.

I would argue that fall calving cows are the most inefficient system there is. People around our area do it for labor reason or because they have cows that didn't breed on time to calf in the spring. But you watch those cows lay around all summer getting fat and then you have to put the feed in front of them when they are trying to raise a calf instead of them getting it on there own. COMPLETELY backwards system. But we have some as well, I just hate them

That is an excellent point!

 

[dun]

I would argue that fall calving cows are the most inefficient system there is. People around our area do it for labor reason or because they have cows that didn't breed on time to calf in the spring. But you watch those cows lay around all summer getting fat and then you have to put the feed in front of them when they are trying to raise a calf instead of them getting it on there own. COMPLETELY backwards system. But we have some as well, I just hate them

That is an excellent point!

I'm always concerned with the icey wind on the freshly slurped upon teats getting frost bitten

 

[Stocker Steve]

I would argue that fall calving cows are the most inefficient system there is. People around our area do it for labor reason or because they have cows that didn't breed on time to calf in the spring. But you watch those cows lay around all summer getting fat and then you have to put the feed in front of them when they are trying to raise a calf instead of them getting it on there own. COMPLETELY backwards system. But we have some as well, I just hate them

Could be worse. At least yours are not belly deep in snow. ;-)

- One guy here used them on small pastures, so he does not need a bull with them in the summer...
- Another (ex dairy) guy used them so he could still make and feed corn silage...

They both got cured after a while.

 

[Stocker Steve]

:lol: Or get more cows :nod:

Yup, or leave the calves on the cows for longer.

I have pairs and heifers on ex stocker pastures. This is a big problem for a couple of the neigbors with pool table pastures, but we increase our numbers each year and wean May/June calves in January/Febuary so it works under the polar vortex.

I have had some concern that the heifers will become overconditioned and not settle. So far we just eat a couple heifers each fall and the problem seems to go away. :nod: