Other black breeds

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Our breed association is taking it VERY seriously. They have been testing the top 50 used bulls for a number of years for genetic defects (those known at the time & updating as we "type") They have been requiring testing before registraton on anything with Shorthorn, Maine Or Chi bloodlines because of the TH & ??. They've been changing their requirements as this has been exploding. The Board of Trustees are meeting this weekend to discuss the best way to handle this.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I suggest that a purebred continental would be much safer from angus syndromes than those "other black breeds"; because the blacks usually hold 94 % angus, while purebred usually hold second to none.
Example: you mate whatever cow to a full blood bull (and it was often a hereford to start with before the black fad); you get 50%, 75%, 87,5%, 93,4%, 97%, 98%, 99,18%, 99,56% 99,75%, 99,84, 98,89%, and so on.

 

[Frankie]

I suggest that a purebred continental would be much safer from angus syndromes than those "other black breeds"; because the blacks usually hold 94 % angus, while purebred usually hold second to none.
Example: you mate whatever cow to a full blood bull (and it was often a hereford to start with before the black fad); you get 50%, 75%, 87,5%, 93,4%, 97%, 98%, 99,18%, 99,56% 99,75%, 99,84, 98,89%, and so on.

What percentage of Angus blood does it take to pass along the Curly Calf or marble bone defect? Or Maine blood to pass along TH or PHA?

 

[ANAZAZI]

I suggest that a purebred continental would be much safer from angus syndromes than those "other black breeds"; because the blacks usually hold 94 % angus, while purebred usually hold second to none.
Example: you mate whatever cow to a full blood bull (and it was often a hereford to start with before the black fad); you get 50%, 75%, 87,5%, 93,4%, 97%, 98%, 99,18%, 99,56% 99,75%, 99,84, 99,89%, and so on.

What percentage of Angus blood does it take to pass along the Curly Calf or marble bone defect? Or Maine blood to pass along TH or PHA?

It takes only the specific gene; however it is higly unlikely that that gene is what was transmitted from the basic stock to the purebred, when most of the blood belongs to the new breed. Also, most angus are clean, non carriers and the risk that two recessive malicious alleles meet in one particular purebred, or even in one particular black fad 94%er is much smaller than the risk in pure angus.
And curly calf fawn and those are not seen every day are they?

 

[houstoncutter]

Well i replied to Frankies question with a honest reply real Limi's don't have those problems. Not the bulls fault them little pinchassed cows couldn't pass more than a tomcat.

Steady there Red Bull, Lets dont start throwing stones.........Some Limi bulls are carriers of protophlia or how ever the heck you spell it..... .. Especially the fullbloods and Harvest Oly was a cow killer if you put him on the wrong bloodlines.......as for the Gardiners..........fine straight up cowpeople......I bought a bull from them 20 years ago and put him in my coastal pasture he got the cows bred but he was just about dead doing it....They gave me a large portion of my money back and my cows got bred.....I got 20 nice calfs out of those first calf heifers..............VERY FEW SEEDSTOCK BREEDERS WOULD BACK UP THEIR BULLS LIKE THAT......they will talk the talk but not walk the walk.......

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Never said they didn't have there own problems Houstoncutter, said didn't have to worry about curlycalf or fawn calf and that is what Frankie as about. As for Gardiners don't recall ever saying anything about them.

 

[alexfarms]

I suggest that a purebred continental would be much safer from angus syndromes than those "other black breeds"; because the blacks usually hold 94 % angus, while purebred usually hold second to none.
Example: you mate whatever cow to a full blood bull (and it was often a hereford to start with before the black fad); you get 50%, 75%, 87,5%, 93,4%, 97%, 98%, 99,18%, 99,56% 99,75%, 99,84, 98,89%, and so on.

What percentage of Angus blood does it take to pass along the Curly Calf or marble bone defect? Or Maine blood to pass along TH or PHA?

So, what game are you playing now...Misery loves company? I think the AAA is handling this situation well, considering where they are....which is obviously a lot more serious than I ever expected it was. I don't think it is productive for you to try to bring all the other breeds down just to make you feel better about Angus. As for Herefords, the AHA website lists 153 dna tested carriers to date and it is confined to a pretty narrow bloodline that the breed won't miss. There are probably other problems in the Herefords, but I don't think there is much chance it is anywhere near what the Angus are experiencing. The Hereford breed maintains a pretty broad genetic base with several well documented and populated bloodlines. A rancher who had been a top breeder in Angus several years ago and had sold out told me at that time that the Angus were setting themselves up for trouble by concentrating on just a few bloodlines. When an entire breed is dominated by just a few main paternal lines, they had better be sound and apparantly in the case of the Angus they weren't. It is looking more and more like the AAA was too slow to act. The DNA testing is really getting some attention, there is just one problem with it(well, maybe more than just one) , it only works after a large number of cattle have become carriers and the trait has been identified.......sort of like closing the barn door after the horse has already gotten out.

 

[Frankie]

So, what game are you playing now...Misery loves company? I think the AAA is handling this situation well, considering where they are....which is obviously a lot more serious than I ever expected it was. I don't think it is productive for you to try to bring all the other breeds down just to make you feel better about Angus. As for Herefords, the AHA website lists 153 dna tested carriers to date and it is confined to a pretty narrow bloodline that the breed won't miss. There are probably other problems in the Herefords, but I don't think there is much chance it is anywhere near what the Angus are experiencing. The Hereford breed maintains a pretty broad genetic base with several well documented and populated bloodlines. A rancher who had been a top breeder in Angus several years ago and had sold out told me at that time that the Angus were setting themselves up for trouble by concentrating on just a few bloodlines. When an entire breed is dominated by just a few main paternal lines, they had better be sound and apparantly in the case of the Angus they weren't. It is looking more and more like the AAA was too slow to act. The DNA testing is really getting some attention, there is just one problem with it(well, maybe more than just one) , it only works after a large number of cattle have become carriers and the trait has been identified.......sort of like closing the barn door after the horse has already gotten out.

I was honestly curious as to how other breeds were handling the Angus problems since they've incorporated Angus (and their problems) into their breeds. And actually got a couple of responses. AHA reports 153 DNA tested carriers of what?

From the Spring 2009 SEP:

From a total of 195,124 sires with progeny records in the American Angus
Association database, the Spring 2009 Sire Evaluation Report lists 2,337 sires......

If you think the Angus breed is dominated by a few sires, you're very mistaken. Take a look at any semen catalog and tell me how many different bloodlines are available....and compare the number of Angus bulls to other breeds. IMO, the strength of the breed is the diversity of bloodlines that can be used all over the US.

These are serious problems. But there's a simple fix for the commercial cattleman: Before you buy your next bull of ANY breed, ask if they've been tested or if their pedigree is clean of any known genetic disorders. Because every breed has some genetic disorders. These recent problems with Angus have been simple recessive genes. If you buy a clean bull, it doesn't matter if the cows are carriers, you still should not have an affected calf.