Organic Meds

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Dun said-"That's part of it, but I think anotherpart is that if the resesarch came from a university or the gov that the organic movement would claim it wasn;t accurate if it didn;t parrot the organic party line. So why bother?"
So why bother? I hope they don't. I don't need them, and that pisses them off. I hope the farm bill never passes, I don't need it.
And that pisses them off. One thing the universities and gov don't understand- Organic is a system, not a bag of fertilizer. There lack of this basic understanding pisses me off.
 
Bluestem":3maepy94 said:
One thing the universities and gov don't understand- Organic is a system, not a bag of fertilizer. There lack of this basic understanding be nice me off.

Thank you for proving my point!
 
ETF":14m25uit said:
Our neighbor says a capful of Shakley's Super H liquid detergent every day in the water tank will worm them. Supposedly that's from one of the famous grass-fed writers (Joel Salatin maybe??). Sounds questionable to me but I haven't tried it so can't say definitively one way or the other.

Yes, it is Joe Salatin. Have no idea if it works or not , but he swears by it. Have no idea if Salatin sells Shakley's either . :p
 
rouxshortorn":38ce5ivp said:
dun":38ce5ivp said:
ETF":38ce5ivp said:
Our neighbor says a capful of Shakley's Super H liquid detergent every day in the water tank will worm them. Supposedly that's from one of the famous grass-fed writers (Joel Salatin maybe??). Sounds questionable to me but I haven't tried it so can't say definitively one way or the other.

Do they by any chance sell shakleys products
IS this another pyramid company??

Roux,
I think Shakleys was THE ORIGINAL pyramid company.
 
I think only the most radical people that do believe in natural medicine throw away more modern methods if needed.

I suspect we cannot fully understand natural medicines by looking at one cure for one illness. I think natural health and thereby natural medicines is an approach to healthy living more than the modern approach of treating symptom at a time.

In natural medicines and in traditional Asian medicines the approach is more along the thinking that something in the environment has upset the natural balance in the animal, causing a breakdown in the immune system.

That means looking at the soil, the grass , the water, environmental toxins, mineral balances, etc. the animal is exposed to first to see what is out of balance. Fix that and you fix the immune system breakdown in the animal. Natural medicines, herbs are designed to strengthen the weakness in the immune system caused by imbalances. These cures are often not quick fixes, but rather aids to helping the body heal itself. That may be one reason why it is so often viewed as unsuccessful. It takes time to correct imbalances. It takes time to find the imbalances.

It is not a cure-all system. If a system was born out of wack it will not be fixed, such as a heart defect and the like. Balancing the environment might, however, prevent one like problem from being born that way in the future.

The modern medicine world has only had Penicillan since just after WWI or is it WWII. We had sulfa drugs. Before that the world had natural medicines. Everyone and every animal was not dropping dead all of the time. Do a little geneology and you will see your ancestors often lived longer than we do now. Ages of 80,90 and 100 were certainly not unheard of. Not only that but they worked without mechanical horsepower and had 14 children.

All the labor saving devices may not have been such a gift in the long run. It appears physical hardwork and having enough but not too much went a long way toward health. Pesticides, toxins and the like are a relatively recent phenomenon.

I'm just not sure we know how to study affects of natural medicines in Universities and such without guarenteeing skewed results. I know of a woman who raises goats and worms with garlic mixed in yogurt. She swears by it and has used it for years. Yet she readily admits this only works for the goats born there. Animals brought in that have previously been treated with anhelminics do not respond to her natural treatments so she had learned she will need to wait for the offspring to treat them her natural way. Pretty interesting.

The Complete Herbal Handbook For Farm and Stable by Juliette de Bairacli Levy is a recommended book for herbal type treatments. Unfortunately the Author is English and the herbs are not always what is common to the USA. It was recommended to me by a veternarian who combines traditional western medicine with natural medicine. I have not had a chance to try it because I haven't had a sick animal since I bought it, except a dog with a large bone spur on her spine which I'm pretty sure it won't help with that, except maybe with pain.

It may all be hocus pocus I don't know, but the world did something in earlier times and survived.

The one thing I do believe is the less we use medicines and wormers the longer they will remain effective for us when we truly need them.

Melissa
 
dun":oykmplha said:
That's part of it, but I think anotherpart is that if the resesarch came from a university or the gov that the organic movement would claim it wasn;t accurate if it didn;t parrot the organic party line. So why bother?

Dun, there are certainly some new-age moonbeam types who wouldn't believe anything the university did. I am not one of them.

I think that a lot of organic research conducted by universities has been poorly designed. That said, I have hope that it will improve.

Go to this website - http://www.landstewardshipproject.org. Many of the organic and sustainable folks I know are members of this organization. I am a big supporter of the organization. They have worked hard for university programs that benefit sustainable farmers.

You look and tell me if you think they are a bunch of goofballs.
 
dun":6461al44 said:
The part the bugged me was using peta rhetoric

Well I certainly agree with your dislike of Peta Dun. Peta is an organization that I can hardly believe exists. The logic behind them is mostly non-existent - at least I can't find anything rational or common sense about them. :frowns: :???:

What really blows my mind is the support they do receive. They would happily take away freedom of choice in this country and it appears some people think that kind of dictatorship is fine. :mad:
 
From our experience, once the animal is sick or infested is not the time for organic "cures". It can be a vicious cycle of putting N on your soil, which depletes copper, which in proper amounts in diet controls internal parisites. But don't just go pour out copper by itself, it can be harmful. Some animal families are better able to absorb nutrients than others. And illness is inherited. We have culled many animals lately that don't do so well at our place. We have seen dairy cows, that have high mastitis numbers. And once treated with antibiotic, get better. But they transmit this on to their offspring.
 
dun":1ugrmxkf said:
The part the bugged me was using peta rhetoric

PETA rhetoric?

LSP is an organization that has promoted animal agriculture for the last 25 years.

Doesn't PETA want to get rid of all animal agriculture?
 
dun":hmik98tu said:
Bluestem":hmik98tu said:
One thing the universities and gov don't understand- Organic is a system, not a bag of fertilizer. There lack of this basic understanding be nice me off.

Thank you for proving my point!
You're welcome.
Years ago the guru's of the day were convinced the world was flat and the sun rotated around the earth. The evidence was quite convincing. Time proved them wrong. I will question research if in my mind I see an over site on the part of the researcher.
 
badaxemoo":2izivwff said:
dun":2izivwff said:
The part the bugged me was using peta rhetoric

PETA rhetoric?

LSP is an organization that has promoted animal agriculture for the last 25 years.

Doesn't PETA want to get rid of all animal agriculture?

The rhetoric is the term "factory farm"! That has been used be peta to label just about every form of livestock agriculture.
 

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