oppinions....

[grand chaser09]

i've got three calves i would like oppinions on. All three of them are mine. and all going to the same show. im showing two of them and the other my step sister is showing.

My steer[Baloo yes like off the jungle book] is a ManChildX MA XAng.
His birthday is 8/23/07.

My heifer{Famous like the clothing line] is a Mossy Oak on top and a Meyer 734 X Ang on bottom.
her birthday is 9/2/07.

and lastly my boy ive raised since he was born Fabio. haha. don't ask where i got the name.
Hes a Dr.Who son and his mom is a maine tainer.
he was born 9/24/07. he will be competing in the regular show and then another one just for calves born in lee county fl. he is also a first calf from that heifer.

and i know their clip jobs aren't the best in the world but its so hot down here im just trying to keep them cool. and they stand in the mud all day so hence the dirty legs.

 

[VCC]

I think that if you took some better pictures with them setup they would look allot better. The angle of the picture of the heifer does nothing for her try taking the picture from her level not above her. The first steer is way too stretched out to really know what his back does; the third steer might look better standing natural. The part about looking light in the neck, well that is the difference between show calves and commercial animals, they show calves are bred to have a clean freaky neck.

Try and get some pictures with them setup and take them from a lower level then repost, I think they will look allot different.

I would not go selling them off yet, TMB would like to see you showing Salers anyway.

 

[VCC]

I took a closer look at the first steer, he has plenty off hind quarter, a good square hip, but the only thing that concerns me other than his back is his front legs, which again could just be the way he is standing.

 

[Avalon]

I can only offer an opinion on the steer at this time. He has plenty of dimesnsion and thickness.
However, he is way to straight in his front end. This is what causes the problem with his front legs. It is also what is causing him to appear as if he is swayed or not level across the top. Because of his build, his shoulder blades are being forced up higher than they would normally be. With that said, keep a healthy coat on him. Then you can 1.carve out a bit more angular shoulder 2. make the front legs look a bit more correct and 3. really peel the hair off the top of the shoulder to make him have a more level appearance.

 

[VCC]

That is what hair is for.

 

[Colorado2008]

I can only offer an opinion on the steer at this time. He has plenty of dimesnsion and thickness.
However, he is way to straight in his front end. This is what causes the problem with his front legs. It is also what is causing him to appear as if he is swayed or not level across the top. Because of his build, his shoulder blades are being forced up higher than they would normally be. With that said, keep a healthy coat on him. Then you can 1.carve out a bit more angular shoulder 2. make the front legs look a bit more correct and 3. really peel the hair off the top of the shoulder to make him have a more level appearance.

That will take an awful lot of work to correct a genetic flaw.

That is what hair is for.

VCC is absolutly correct. This project is not ONLY about raising the best steer with the least amount of flaws. Yes, that is the major factor to it but if you can take good and make it look better, why not? There are a lot of steers that you would be terrible disappointed in when they are wet.

TMB I think that you are awfuly rough on these kids. They are trying. I am sure at one point you had cattle that weren't the prettiest. Its all a learning game. Instead of telling them to sell off what they have and buy better...tell them what they can improve on. These calves have a little more going for them than what you give them credit for.

 

[Jovid]

VCC is absolutly correct. This project is not ONLY about raising the best steer with the least amount of flaws. Yes, that is the major factor to it but if you can take good and make it look better, why not? There are a lot of steers that you would be terrible disappointed in when they are wet

So what are we really teaching kids about raising cattle? Do we want them to learn to raise structurally correct cattle or do we want them to know how to grow hair and cover up a defect by a good clipping job?

You are correct in that most steers would look bad if they were wet. I guess that is why more of the big shows are having the steers clipped short. Can't hide anything without the hair. I think you will eventually see the hair thing go away.

 

[Colorado2008]

VCC is absolutly correct. This project is not ONLY about raising the best steer with the least amount of flaws. Yes, that is the major factor to it but if you can take good and make it look better, why not? There are a lot of steers that you would be terrible disappointed in when they are wet

So what are we really teaching kids about raising cattle? Do we want them to learn to raise structurally correct cattle or do we want them to know how to grow hair and cover up a defect by a good clipping job?

You are correct in that most steers would look bad if they were wet. I guess that is why more of the big shows are having the steers clipped short. Can't hide anything without the hair. I think you will eventually see the hair thing go away.

I don't think that the hair thing will ever go away. I just don't.

I guess I'll put what Im tryin to say into different words. Yes. We do want these kids to learn to raise structurally correct cattle. I've seen so many cattle that are not structurally correct; in fact, i've owned a few myself. However, (knowing from experince) you cannot always buy the 'most complete' steer for the money that you have in your pocket. You buy what you can for the money you have. So you get that steer to grow a little hair and cover some of the flaws. Besides, it gives the kids something to work towards and imho it makes even the best steer look that much better.

oh and btw Grand chaser09 out of the three calves you have, I like the Manchild steer the best. He seems to have the most potential; plenty of bone under him and he seems to have a decent amount of muscling. He does appear to be weak topped and a little bit straight off of his shoulder. But I believe if you got him standing on a more level surface the break behind his shoulder would decrease. And when you clip his legs, be sure to take down the hair on the outside and inside of the hock to make the leg more uniform. When you finish the tail, make sure to start the 'V' at the pins (you should be albe to feel them to know where to stop) and go down to about an inch or so above the twist.

 

[grand chaser09]

TNM, thank you for all of the criticisms. i appreciate it. i can take alot of it.

All three of these calves are going to a county fair in Ft.myers.

I have noticed they all have very clean neck lines but thats from their breeds and thats what all judges down here look for.

Here is a better pic of the Blue steer...

he looks better here. an ive noticed that he stands better when you hold him instead of being tied. weird? and he is practicly shaved on the top of his shoullders.

And he has alot of hair on his legs and boning them is my favorite part and i take alot of pride in it. so i should be able to hide alot of that.

The heifer i had noticed she had a rather small rear is there any suggestions on how to make it grow? her half sister has the same problem?? does mossy oak just throw heifers that look that way?

and the black steer is as ive said a first time calf. and he always stands like that now. but he didn't back in may and when he was a baby.ideas on why he might have started doing this??
heres a pic of him back in Feb with his dam. he was about 4 months old

and this one was him in May about 8 months old and he won his class. he weighed about 420. it was his first show and my step sisters too.

 

[RD-Sam]

VCC is absolutly correct. This project is not ONLY about raising the best steer with the least amount of flaws. Yes, that is the major factor to it but if you can take good and make it look better, why not? There are a lot of steers that you would be terrible disappointed in when they are wet

So what are we really teaching kids about raising cattle? Do we want them to learn to raise structurally correct cattle or do we want them to know how to grow hair and cover up a defect by a good clipping job?

You are correct in that most steers would look bad if they were wet. I guess that is why more of the big shows are having the steers clipped short. Can't hide anything without the hair. I think you will eventually see the hair thing go away.

I agree, the dog show world is all about covering up flaws and the breeders haven't paid attention to what they are breeding because they know they can sculpt the dog and make it look like whatever they want. That doesn't help the dog population, and now the dogs are all screwed up. People need to learn what is correct, not how to cover up the flaws. :nod:

 

[SKF Show Cattle]

I agree better pics. Still not very level in the top line as what I like to see and still looks a bit stunted I guess you could say in the front and that is why the top line looks off. I like to see em thicker through the neck. Just my preference. Not trying to criticize in a bad way. I am trying to give constructive criticism. I would just like to see you raising better genetics than having to cover up flaws with hair. I understand buying top of the line is expensive but if you want to win that is what it takes. So long as you do not put yourself in debt go for it. Would I buy a 5,000 dollar animal? Danged right cuz it wont put me in debt and it will beat out a 1500-4000 dollar animal more than likely. Even high priced animals can have flaws though so you really gotta watch out.

First of all I don't think most people are trying to raise calves with genetic faults and great hair. I know that when we bred our cows my goal is to have a calf that is perfect but there is no such thing. The bull calves that have some issues will become steers that way they are not breeding. If they have issues that are severe they go to the market and if the cow has more then one calf with serious structural issues she goes to the market to. Yes when you are grooming them you use hair to make your animal look it's best after all they are show animals. A good judge will be able to see through the hair. Remember these are steers so to have some structural issues is not the end of the world as long as when they are on the rail you have a good product. Now if these calves were bulls I would be more concerned. As someone said before everyone has a budget and you have to buy the best you can within your budget. Plus sometimes when you buy a calf they look great and as they grow they don't turn out as you had hope and sometimes you buy one that you thought was okay and it turns out great. It's alway a learning process.

Tori- The blue roan calf looks much better in the 2nd picture. I do remember seeing him at Arcadia and he looked real good!! Good Luck with him. I think the other claves you just need better pictures. I have found that if you take picture while tied up they never look their best. Try taking them while they are turned out in a pen and have someone else get their attention and you should get better pictures or just set them up and have someone take your pics for you.

 

[KNERSIE]

Would I buy a 5,000 dollar animal? Danged right cuz it wont put me in debt and it will beat out a 1500-4000 dollar animal more than likely.

Just remember these are steers, their destiny is someone's plate. Spending a little more on breeding animals I can understand, but paying way more than marketprice on a steer is missing the point of youth shows in my opinion.

 

[Jovid]

Would I buy a 5,000 dollar animal? Danged right cuz it wont put me in debt and it will beat out a 1500-4000 dollar animal more than likely.

Just remember these are steers, their destiny is someone's plate. Spending a little more on breeding animals I can understand, but paying way more than marketprice on a steer is missing the point of youth shows in my opinion.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[grand chaser09]

thank you for all of your opinions. but i really am trying to breed to get good hairy calves with minimal structural problems. i have started with my own maine cows and i have had a few good ones and a few bad. but that is my goal is to produce at one point way on down the line calves that will win shows for kids all over. unfortunatly i won't be able to show my own steers that i produce since this is my last year as a youth. on the brighter side i will be able to sell them to kids that could do very well with them. and since i have been breeding i am very picky about what i sell to be shown. alot of them go to market, and never see a showring.