Opinions requested

[Anonymous]

Greetings from Central Fl. the home of the mosquito,Micky Mouse & people, lots of people. Herds of beef eaters from our great northeast are driving me,my family & my three brangus cows from our "ranchette" not to mention realestate prices through the roof. We purchased a 60 acre very loosly managed but well manacured cow calf operation, aprox. 45 miles S of Lexington Ky. Two barns,shed,two ponds,3 springs,good fences,good hay feild w grass clover mix and good pasture.I own a dental lab by trade.I make teeth for beefeaters. Lab and house to be on property. My original intentions to manage place for deer and turkey. But I love a challenge and enjoy hard work. I am tempted to tighten up this operation by renovating and dividing pastures, create travel lanes,water acess,building pens and handling facilaties,by a baler,manage reproduction possibley purchase ajoining 25 acs.etc,etc... I have 2 boys to put to work and teach an alternate lifestyle to & I dont mean the alternate lifestyle our northeastern friends mean. U of Ky surveys say most operations are loose and lose cash out of pocket or money when you factor in unpaid labor. A few make money. I have a good business and income and no debt. Money is not my motivator. I figure 5 yrs to make improvements and build herd & another 5 to get experienced, effecient,build a reputation,for producing & marketing a good product(calves). My question! IS IT WORTH IT ? Or do I mow 3 times a year round up the fence line along the road & eat lots of venison & wild turkey? Your opinion please. Hot and crouded in Fl. Al

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[Anonymous]

It depends on what you consider worth it. You'll work your butt off, break even or make a little money and eat great beef. I've said before, the cows are my bottle of booze, tranqualizer pills and sanity check. I figure that's worth more then a lot of money. You'll get satisfaction, long hours during calving season and a good environment to raise kids. The deal is, you can have the cows and all the venison and turkey you want. With a couple of acres of woods fenced to keep the cows out, fencing around the ponds for the same reason and you'll have lots of hunting. When you do pasture improvements keep wildlife in mind, fescue is awfully poor for wildlife. If you check with your local USDA NRCS office, they may have share money to help with your improvements. You'vce paid the taxes, you might as well get some of it back. Just my opinions

dunmovin farms

> Greetings from Central Fl. the
> home of the mosquito,Micky Mouse
> & people, lots of people.
> Herds of beef eaters from our
> great northeast are driving me,my
> family & my three brangus cows
> from our "ranchette" not
> to mention realestate prices
> through the roof. We purchased a
> 60 acre very loosly managed but
> well manacured cow calf operation,
> aprox. 45 miles S of Lexington Ky.
> Two barns,shed,two ponds,3
> springs,good fences,good hay feild
> w grass clover mix and good
> pasture.I own a dental lab by
> trade.I make teeth for beefeaters.
> Lab and house to be on property.
> My original intentions to manage
> place for deer and turkey. But I
> love a challenge and enjoy hard
> work. I am tempted to tighten up
> this operation by renovating and
> dividing pastures, create travel
> lanes,water acess,building pens
> and handling facilaties,by a
> baler,manage reproduction
> possibley purchase ajoining 25
> acs.etc,etc... I have 2 boys to
> put to work and teach an alternate
> lifestyle to & I dont mean the
> alternate lifestyle our
> northeastern friends mean. U of Ky
> surveys say most operations are
> loose and lose cash out of pocket
> or money when you factor in unpaid
> labor. A few make money. I have a
> good business and income and no
> debt. Money is not my motivator. I
> figure 5 yrs to make improvements
> and build herd & another 5 to
> get experienced, effecient,build a
> reputation,for producing &
> marketing a good product(calves).
> My question! IS IT WORTH IT ? Or
> do I mow 3 times a year round up
> the fence line along the road
> & eat lots of venison &
> wild turkey? Your opinion please.
> Hot and crouded in Fl. Al

 

[Anonymous]

Did I read you right in that you fence around ponds to keep the cows out? Stock tanks (ponds) are the main source of water for livestock in Texas. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I'm curious to know why you do it different in Mo.

Craig

 

[Anonymous]

You're on the right track, approaching it from a realistic perspective. On the scale you describe it will be for pleasure – not profit. Any profit is gravy. Even on a bigger scale you would probably never make the income you are accustomed to. Having said that, it's mighty nice to have a pastime that actually has the potential to pay for itself and possibly pay you something in the good years. Sure beats throwing money into a boat or a golf course membership.

If you are making a decent living and have no debt a Schedule F can be a beautiful thing. You will definitely want to hook up with a well reputed CPA that is familiar with farm & ranch regs. Somebody that will keep you honest but also knows how to play the limit on what the law allows. He can guide you on depreciation schedules for improvements, etc. He will be worth the hourly rate. Work hard and have fun.

Craig

 

[Anonymous]

We do it for the same reasons it should be done everywhere. Keeps the cows from standing in the ponds which can cause hoof rot, keeps them from crapping in them which keeps the water more healthy, keeps them from causing turgid water which is bad for the fish, keeps them from getting teats bitten by snappers, allows the ponds to last longer by not breaking down banks and dams and reduces siltation.

dunmovin farms

> Did I read you right in that you
> fence around ponds to keep the
> cows out? Stock tanks (ponds) are
> the main source of water for
> livestock in Texas. I'm sure
> there's a good reason, but I'm
> curious to know why you do it
> different in Mo.

> Craig

 

[Anonymous]

> We do it for the same reasons it
> should be done everywhere. Keeps
> the cows from standing in the
> ponds which can cause hoof rot,
> keeps them from crapping in them
> which keeps the water more
> healthy, keeps them from causing
> turgid water which is bad for the
> fish, keeps them from getting
> teats bitten by snappers, allows
> the ponds to last longer by not
> breaking down banks and dams and
> reduces siltation.

> dunmovin farms

What do you use to get water to your cows if they can't get to the ponds? I have been considering a few options but wanted to know what you use.

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[Anonymous]

There are a couple of options. You can place a freeze proof (I assume it freezes there) waterer just below the dam and run either a simple siphon hose over the dam, a hydraulic ram (NRCS has plans for those) or punch a pipe with an anti-siphon collar through the face of the dam. If you cant just drive it through you can dig a trench through the damn to lay it. The preferred way of doing that is to put it in when you build the pond, but that's not always practicle. Or if push comes to shove, you can fence the pond so the cows can only reach a small part of it and dump fist size rocks a couple of layers think in the area they would have access to. The rock keeps them from lingering, it's apparently uncomfortable on their little footies. We use a layer of rock like that around all the water tanks to keep it from getting too boggy.

dunmovin farms

> What do you use to get water to
> your cows if they can't get to the
> ponds? I have been considering a
> few options but wanted to know
> what you use.

 

[Anonymous]

I know in Fl.the extra nutriants from cattle waste and fertilizers causes algee blooms which suck all the O2 out of the water causeing fish kills not to mention turning the water into pea soup. Al

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[Anonymous]

So it seems to me that it takes a mil$ worth of realestate to ranch full time and earn a middle class income. I read "W" paid 1.2 mil for his 1500 acs in Tx. thats 800 per ac. which is unimproved swamp in Fl or steep hillside in cen.Ky. So what happens to the industry when the up coming crop of MTV watching video game players , parents and grandparents start passing and Jr. realizes cash poor dad was really land rich? Do we have a new generation of realtors coming? Al

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[Anonymous]

Shouldn't that be "pee" soup

dunmovin farms

> I know in Fl.the extra nutriants
> from cattle waste and fertilizers
> causes algee blooms which suck all
> the O2 out of the water causeing
> fish kills not to mention turning
> the water into pea soup. Al

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting. Never had any of the problems you list except hoof rot, but we rarely have that and only during a period where we've had a lot of rain over an extended period, which we haven't had since I can hardly remember – ha. If they were in a lot of mud we have seen if from time to time, but very few problems overall. Of course, part of that is getting on top of it ASAP. Around here it is definitely weather related.

As far as the water goes, it's not a problem here. Maybe because we have such a long hot period. Or maybe it would be a bigger problem in small tanks. The fish do great (bass and cats) and I've never known a turtle to bite a cow. Of course, I'm not saying they won't pick well water over tank water when they have a choice and it's equal distance to either. For this part of the country it would not cost justify to do it any differently.

Craig

 

[Anonymous]

You make a good point. I'm a half hour from W and at the crazy rates these days $800/ac is a good buy. He's in an area that is somewhat better land but gets the same rainfall as here. Folks around here are real proud to have them as neighbors, but most sure were glad when the working vacation was over this summer. The jet noise was non-stop. Between all the big jets coming and going night and day and all the fighter patrols it sounded like we were near DFW airport.

It's awful hard to make a "good living" running cattle full time. But, a lot of people seem to confuse "standard of living" with "quality of life." Most folks on these boards would agree that they're not the same thing, I'll bet. My granddad used to say that they never made a living, they just lived off what they made.

It is a shame when people have to sell long-held family land to pay inheritance taxes. A crying shame.

Craig