Open Cows?

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Cattle Rack Rancher

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Just had the vet out preg checking my cows. 6 open out of 22 head on a 90 day cycle. Realistically, 3 were tail enders who probably just sort of fell off the schedule this year and one was a first calver who raised a really huge calf, but two were real surprises. One was one of my best cows. Anyway, as I was talking to the vet, he was saying alot of guys around here are averaging close to 20% open this year. He said a couple of guys are closer to 40%. He thinks its just the year. Lots of grass, but maybe not good grass. I'm pretty meticulous with my mineral program so I'm a bit surprised to have so many not bred. I was talking to the neighbor. He sold out his cows this year and he said that alot of them came in open at the salebarn, but he just assumed it was a problem with his bull. Anybody else experiencing problems like that?
 
Jogeephus":2qw67wc2 said:
Sorry to here that. That's got to hurt.

Yep, its almost 30%, but on the upside, at least I only had 22 cows. The vet was telling me that he was at a guys place the other day who had 65 head and 26 of them were open and some bigger guys around here with 200-300 head are averaging @ 18% open. Unlike me, those guys are counting on this for their bread and butter. Of course, I've had a few hours to get over the initial shock and spent some time rationalizing about it and decided that maybe the cows that were open just weren't very good cows anyway, being that they didn't catch when the rest of my cows did. Not only that, but this gives me a really good opportunity to go out and buy some nice, shiny, new bred cows. How's that for finding the silver lining in the cloud?
 
Sorry about the opens. While I'm not near 20%, I definitely had more late cycling cows than normal. Bad couple of years.

Cattle Rack Rancher":bvr6powz said:
Not only that, but this gives me a really good opportunity to go out and buy some nice, shiny, new bred cows. How's that for finding the silver lining in the cloud?

Right nows a heckuva good time to buy some shiny new bred cows. 3 weeks ago, I shipped some 5 - 6yr old Angus Jan calvers in really nice shape. They topped the sale at a staggering $500 each. According to my buddy who trucks to the markets, that was a high point and its went downhill since.

<chuckle> I was trying to convince him to sell some bred PB Shorthorns he had kicking around. His comments weren't very nice. :lol:

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo":tw652f9a said:
Sorry about the opens. While I'm not near 20%, I definitely had more late cycling cows than normal. Bad couple of years.

Cattle Rack Rancher":tw652f9a said:
Not only that, but this gives me a really good opportunity to go out and buy some nice, shiny, new bred cows. How's that for finding the silver lining in the cloud?

Right nows a heckuva good time to buy some shiny new bred cows. 3 weeks ago, I shipped some 5 - 6yr old Angus Jan calvers in really nice shape. They topped the sale at a staggering $500 each. According to my buddy who trucks to the markets, that was a high point and its went downhill since.

<chuckle> I was trying to convince him to sell some bred PB Shorthorns he had kicking around. His comments weren't very nice. :lol:

Rod

That sounds pretty cheap. Maybe I'll get my cattle buyer to take a look for me and see what he can find. After hunting season that is. ;-)
 
With that many open cattle in your area, I would be looking at Trichomoniasis. For those on this board who have never delt with trich, it is a VD that causes cows to abort. Usually around 50 days after conception. The cows are the carriers and the bulls are the transfer agent. It is widespread in the western USA. One article I read stated that it costs our industry over $100 million per year.
A vet will need to test your bulls, a skin sample from the inside of the bulls sheath needs to be taken and placed in a reactive medium. The Medium is then read after 3 and 7 days for a reaction.
We picked up trich from the neighbor one year. We went from a 93% to 95% average breed rate to about 70%. The good news is you can get rid of it. Sell all the open cows, test the bulls and vacinate for trich. We were able to get rid of it in one year but most places take 2 or more.
 
Cattle Rack Rancher":16js9vrh said:
this gives me a really good opportunity to go out and buy some nice, shiny, new bred cows. How's that for finding the silver lining in the cloud?

You can't raise cattle without being an optimist! :lol: Sorry to hear about your high percentage of opens. :(
 
Sorry to hear 'bout your year so far CRR - here in Montana things are looking good - out of 372 I'm pretty sure I have no more than 5 open, and 3 of those I kindof expected - they're really old cows off my Dad's place - kinda the last few of the old brand.
Diamond S makes me want to come north and buy cows! $500 canadian?
 
sjr725":371a5v8f said:
Diamond S makes me want to come north and buy cows! $500 canadian?

Yep, bred and nice animals, just going to calve a month or so earlier than I wanted. If I'd known they were going to get stolen, I would have simply started calving season early. That was the high point. They've since come down, and older stuff is selling for 3 bills with middle aged stuff in the 4's.

Rod
 
Well I think you have to be a pessimist to be in this business tying to think what is going to bite you in the butt next and trying to head it off.

Now CRR the real question is can you afford to retain open cows. That cow has a cost to upkeep roughly a dollar a day, everyday she remains is a dollar a day in lost profit.
 
Boy,Diamond S, we're not to far from the border I sure hope that doesn't creep across - makes my checkbook hurt just thinking about it! We've been lucky and have sold all our calves to the same contract buyer for years now and the only cows I haul to the sale are dry or old etc.and I expect cull price for them.
 
I found this interesting, from BeefCowCalf.com newsletter:

Trouble-Shooting Reproductive Failure
With fall preg-checking season well underway, some herd owners are surely pleased with their results. Meanwhile, others are looking for bred females to purchase.

The goal shouldn't be to have 100% of your cows bred each year. Herds at or near 100% pregnant year after year generally represent one of two situations -- a very extended calving season or overfeeding. Neither option is cost-effective for overall herd profitability.

Financial analysis indicates a pregnancy percentage of 90-95% in 65 days is both achievable and likely most profitable. If your herd is below this level, some investigation by you and your herd-health veterinarian is needed.

When I investigate a reproductive problem, I break it into the following categories: For bull problems, it's Breeding Soundness Exam (BSE), overuse, or lack of libido. For cow problems, I look at nutrition, environment, disease and genetics.

Bull problems
When a large percentage of cows are open, my first thought is generally a bull problem. With a national annual average of about 10% of bulls failing their BSE, an annual BSE on every bull before turnout is a must. Nearly every year I've been in practice, I've seen a group of cows all open due to a sterile bull. It's an easy situation to figure out.

Another bull problem is simply overuse. My rule of thumb for Midwest herds is you need a month of bull age for every cow in a 65-day breeding season. If you have 100 cows in a group, you need "100 months of bull" to breed them.

This means three bulls at three years of age, or two bulls at four years of age, would be adequate bull power. We know some bulls can service more than 50 cows in a breeding season, but 50 cows to a bull is our upper limit.

We also know using bulls of greatly differing ages doesn't work well. Having a yearling bull in the pasture with a three- and four-year-old adds up to 100 months, but the yearling will likely get no cows bred due to dominance issues by the older bulls.

The final bull problem is lack of libido. These bulls generally get some cows bred but not enough. To diagnose this problem, place a group of open cows with the bull(s) in question. If the bull lies down in the shade when a cow is in heat, he's asking to leave the herd.

Cow problems
Nutrition tends to be the most common reason for a less-than-desirable pregnancy percentage; the most common nutritional problem is lack of Body Condition Score (BCS) before calving. This is primarily an energy deficiency.

The period between weaning and the third trimester of pregnancy is the most cost- effective time to improve BCS. A good BCS prior to calving is key to breeding back in a timely fashion.

If thin cows are over-represented in the open pen, you may already have the answer. If your younger cows are over-represented, it can be the same problem.

Mature cows that calve too thin (below BCS 5) are at higher risk of being open, compared to cows in good BCS. Young cows are also at increased risk of being open as they need additional energy for skeletal growth. If you have a cow both young and thin, she's at a severe disadvantage.

Post-calving cows need 45% more energy and 40% more protein than a pre-partum cow. Be sure not to shortchange cows at this critical time.

Mineral and vitamin deficiencies also can reduce pregnancy percentage. While phosphorus deficiency historically was listed as a cause of reproductive failure, it's now very rare as most all cows are adequately supplemented with phosphorus.

Other elements that can cause reproductive failure include deficiencies of selenium, vitamin E, cobalt, copper, iodine and manganese. Check with your nutritionist, Extension beef specialist or herd-health veterinarian for requirements in your area.

Environment
A cow herd out of synch with what's going on in the environment can pose problems. The biggest concern is an overly productive cow in an average or poorer environment. We don't want high-maintenance cows weighing 1,700 lbs. trying to get rebred while grazing infected fescue.

Heat stress can also affect reproduction. It can cause reduced embryo viability early in pregnancy, as well as reduced sperm quality and breeding activity by the bull.

Disease
When disease causes reproductive failure, other manifestations of the same disease are generally seen. Abortions, early embryonic death, calves born weak or dead, and calves that die soon after birth are common manifestations. Most disease factors don't simply cause an increase in the percentage of open cows. This is another area where you need to get your herd-health veterinarian involved early in the course of the problem.

Genetics
There are differences in the inherent fertility of different beef breeds. Research also indicates an increase in pregnancy rate in crossbred vs. purebred cows. If you can't attain the pregnancy rate you desire, there may be an underlying genetic component.

If your herd's fall pregnancy results look good, then congratulations. If it's less than desirable, work with your beef team to get to the bottom of the problem. This time next year, you can be reflecting on a job well done.

Editor's Note: For more on Breeding Soundness Exams of bulls, and body condition scoring of cows, visit http://www.beefcowcalf.com. Type either topic into the "Search for:" box on the opening page.
-- W. Mark Hilton, DVM, is a clinical associate professor of beef production medicine at Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN, and a regular contributor to BEEF magazine.
 
Caustic Burno":3219p4kd said:
Well I think you have to be a pessimist to be in this business tying to think what is going to bite you in the butt next and trying to head it off.

Now CRR the real question is can you afford to retain open cows. That cow has a cost to upkeep roughly a dollar a day, everyday she remains is a dollar a day in lost profit.

Well, of the 6 open, 3 were tail enders last year and one was a two year old who raised a huge calf this year. Her Dam is probably the best cow in my herd and I'll take a chance and keep her as I think that after raising that big calf, she deserves another try, not to mention that culls are worth nothing up here. The other two. Well. ????? Who knows, but I shipped 4 out of six to market the other day and another one will be going in the freezer next week. I've got a line on some real nice Black Angus bred heifers for $1000 each or young Simm/Angus cows for $800 a piece. I'm trying to make deal with the guy with the heifers to swap some of my heifer calves with him. This would give me an opportunity to buy them back bred next fall. I was down to see his heifers today, actually and they are decent, but I'm not too wild about the bull he bred them back to and he says he'll probably be using that bull again, but beggars can't be choosers I guess. The other thing is. I really like the bull I have right now (Ankonian Elixir son out of a real good local cow herd) and if I can get an opportunity to get his calves bred elsewhere, it gains me an extra year on him.
Anyway, I'd be alot more concerned about the open cows if it was just me. The more guys I've talked to locally, the more I'm finding that it seems to be relatively widespread.
 
I did our cows last Tuesday, and we pulled off 15 that I wasn't sure on (I'm pretty new at it) I expect that at least 5 of those will be bred, and probably more once I recheck them. But even if they were all dry, we would still be under the %10 mark. 2 2 year olds, 1 3 year old and the rest were all older than 8.
 

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