I have a chance to buy a Remitall Online son for $1500. WW +43, YW +82, BW + 4.4, C E -4.0. He is just coming 2 years old but he weighs 1900 lbs. I would use him on cows. Or I can buy Online yearling grandsons for $1200 to $1500 from another party. Also I have a Starbuck Tank son that I have to move regardless as his daughters are cows now. Any thoughts. I'm weighing the pros and cons. I only need two bulls, one for hiefers and one for cows and I do some AI. Also is there any place where smaller guys are like me who only have 50 to 60 cows can exchange or sell bulls that still are good but we need to eliminate inbreeding. Just my thoughts, Farmguy
Online son
- Thread starter farmguy
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
lakading
Well-known member
It could be a viable business. Regardless of how many good young bulls are born each year, small operators don't want to get salvage value for a good bull and apply that to a % of the purchase price of a new one. If you could find enough like minded people you could make it work. IMO, the biggest issue is going to be health related. Anyway, I would think that if you really want to work at finding other like minded people, that this plan could work. Maybe not....but I guess I'd rather look at an obstacle and say "How can I overcome it" instead of "I cannot overcome it".
I'm not saying it would be easy. But with enough elbow grease and a little luck, you never know what is possible.
I'm not saying it would be easy. But with enough elbow grease and a little luck, you never know what is possible.
I have to back up and agree with you. It could be done, but would be highly improbale of it happening. For a $1,500.00 to $3,000.00 bull there would be much expense to make it worthwhile for just about anyone to want to pursue.lakading":1l8uyxj6 said:
Like you say though, it happening is possible. But I say Highly Improbable
Saltydawg
Well-known member
BW 4.4, CE -4.0
No Thanks.
No Thanks.
lakading
Well-known member
la4angus":lt2pf7nn said:
la4angus...just so you know, I wasn't trying to be too technical or argumentative. I just didn't want to discourage them from trying, if that is what they had in mind.
Kent
Well-known member
farmguy":t1pf4qmx said:
Well, let's take a look at Online's EPDs vs breed avg:
CED -5.2 -0.2
BW +5.2 +3.7
WW +64 +37
YW +118 +63
MM +8 +14
MG +40 +33
CEM +7.2 +0.5
SC +1.9 +0.6
Fat +.001 +.001
REA +0.58 +0.08
IMF +.02 +.00
BMI $29 $15
CEZ $14 $14
BII $26 $15
CHB $30 $16
The numbers in bold indicate Trait Leader status. Looking at those EPDs compared to the son that you are looking at, the dam would have to have epds of : WW 22 and YW 46, which are far below breed average. I woudln't buy the bull because his dam's EPDs cannot be good, and I firmly believe both parents' EPDs must be good to increase the probability that your bull will measure up to his own EPDs.
The CED number doesn't scare me on cows. It is typical of the Remitall bulls. What is also typical is the incredible CEM number, where Online is a trait leader. The daughters of Remitall bulls are noted for calving ease. The BW EPD of your bull is less than one pound above breed avg. This is a classic case where one could easily pass up a good bull because all he did was look at the first EPD and say "no thanks". Online is a breed changer, and I wouldn't hesitate to use him. But you can find a son with better EPDs than these. However, he is half Online, and if you really like him, buy him.
El_Putzo
Well-known member
What are your goals for your 50-60 calves? Do you sell breeding stock, show stock, or at the salebarn? Online is a hot name in the Hereford show world right now. How does this son look phenotypically? The mating of online and this bulls dam may have been done for show purposes and not really worrying about EPDs. One thing I would note is that if he weighs 1900 lbs and isn't yet a 2 yr old, I would say he has some genetic potential for growth. You said he had about a 100% ratio on WW and 97% on BW so he must not have been a spectacular grower at first. Having the the actual weigts at yearling and weaning would be very helpful to go along with the ratios.
I'd also want to know why the owner was selling him as a two yr old. Was he not good enough as a 1 yr old to sell? Did the owner want/need to use him for a yr before he sold him? What do his progeny look like that are on the ground, if he has any. If he doesn't, why not?
Sorry to answer your question with so many more questions. $1500 does seem like a pretty fair price for an Online son if he has any potential at all. You wouldn't happen to have his registration number would you? Maybe a pic too
I'd also want to know why the owner was selling him as a two yr old. Was he not good enough as a 1 yr old to sell? Did the owner want/need to use him for a yr before he sold him? What do his progeny look like that are on the ground, if he has any. If he doesn't, why not?
Sorry to answer your question with so many more questions. $1500 does seem like a pretty fair price for an Online son if he has any potential at all. You wouldn't happen to have his registration number would you? Maybe a pic too
farmguy":1bh9t71w said:
I know the risk is relatively small; but I would rather buy a young bull rather than a bull which has been settling 30 cows for the last few years. I think we have enough vibrio, lepto, etc problems without all of us exchanging our bulls. Maybe that is paranoia on my part; but when you can buy quality coming two year olds for only $1500, why take ANY risk?
farmguy":1bh9t71w said:
Reguarding the bull he sounds fine FOR THE MATURE COWS ONLY. A Hereford with a +4.4 birth wt epd doesn't both me at all on cows. Now obviously a different bull is going to have to be breeding the heifers; but in a two bull herd you can get by quite a while before inbreeding. Unless I was just totally in LOVE with Remitall Online, I would NEVER own a both son and a grandson as my whole bull battery since presumably the heifer bull will breed the daughters of the herd bull and I would rather not have the same bull that prominent in the pedigree of those third generation heifers. We really need pics to really make bull recommendations though.
Kent
Well-known member
Brandonm2":11y192j1 said:
That's right. Does he look like his daddy?
El_Putzo
Well-known member
You might have stumbled on to something with this guy. Let him buy the young bulls and use them a yr, then you come in and buy at a discount price. If he is into the show world as it seems, he knows the value of Online offspring. We still need pics and/or registration number to make a better suggestion.
lakading
Well-known member
Brandonm2":1l8rpt1y said:
You cannot raise a 2 year old bull for $1,500 so being able to purchase on for that amount should raise serious issues about the so-called "quality" that you mentioned.
I agree with you though about the potential health risks out weighing the potential upside of such an arrangement.
farmguy":ilujmcfs said:
ratios are within herd numbers only which don't tell much without knowing what kind of animals are in that group.
personally, i wouldn't buy a bull without actual data. epd's are good to know but not enough.
