One of those days..

[Rydero]

Rydero> you missed the point..eh!

C'mon that was funny, lol. Another funny thought I had was to follow you from thread to thread saying "no one is going to pay a commission for any idea expressed here anyway" but that's also rude. Sometimes the little loses, haha.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Rydero > A following ? Never had a following... Maybe we could cross the Rubicon,,,,,,,,,,,,,? You're welcome..

 

[anewcomer]

The point was not that tagging is not necessary, though for some that would be true. The point is, for most producers, a tag could be placed the first time the calf comes through the chute and then matched with its mother's number over the next several months that it stays on the ranch. There may be producers, like Dave, who move pairs at first working where this might not work. I have to think they are a small percentage, though.

 

[sstterry]

No one is going to pay a commission for any idea expressed here anyway.

I almost got paid, too bad I turned it down.

 

[Rydero]

I for one gave 4 (what I think are) good reasons why we do it before. I'm not sure what else you want, beside us to do it how you think? We're not going out and matching 550 pairs by observing them sucking and writing a giant list in pens of a couple hundred head. I'm not doing it at home with 90 pairs. We don't have time, we don't want to and the system you're proposing would lead to so many mistakes where cows and calves would be separated it wouldn't even be funny. Our tags tell information at a glance. Who your dam is, if you're a twin, when you were born, sex, that you were processed and for heifers if you're an automatic cull. If the tags don't even tell me who the dam is so I can pair them up I'd note the info in my phone and wouldn't bother with the tag. At least that would save money.

 

[farmerjan]

@anewcomer .... we try to tag at birth also. Not all get caught, but it helps to be able to get them in and just load the pairs to go to summer pastures. We rent anywhere from 4 to 10 pastures... most get 10 to 30 cow calf pairs. We don't have time to be watching multiple cow and calves trying to match them up after going through the chute when we are trying to get them moved. Have gotten a few mismatched and had to go through the pain in the a$$ aggravation to get them caught up, matched up, and moved again. There is one place that we will miss some, so we get out the ones we know, then after working the rest, I will spend the time getting them matched.
The good/or bad thing is, all according to how you look at it.... we have many cows that will co-parent calves. They will let their own nurse, let other calves in their group nurse. I have lost a cow or 2 and have the calf get raised by the group and do just fine at places where it would take me days to move portable panels, and try to get them in and catch up the orphan calf and then have to sell or hand feed. I have seen 3 calves on a cow that are 3-400 lbs.... pick the cow up off the ground as they butt her, then later see several on another cow. So, matching them little, as newborns, also makes it easier to get them moved out. It might cover up a cow that doesn't milk real good, but usually I can see a calf that doesn't seem to be doing quite as good, and put the cow on the "watch" list for culling. I want the calves matched early so that they can get moved out as soon as possible to other pastures.

 

[1982vett]

Exactly. If you work them at around 3 months or after they all calve you can slap tags in their ears then. By the time you finish working cattle and maybe eat some lunch they usually go right to momma and you can write them all down then.

We like to separate them right off the bat in the am, then work the cattle, and turn the calves back with momma that evening before dark or the next morning to match numbers.

I wouldnt want to condition my cows to let me snatch a calf from them in the pasture.

We have some super gentle calves out a Hereford bull at one place. They are going to get me run over. They all come and swarm me and will let you pet them and what not but their mommas and standing about ten yards off causing a ruckus not too happy. I thought about tagging one for the fun of it but I knew once that calf hollered one would be in my hip pocket for sure.

Works for me....

I log em in with a number as I find them and tag with another number whenever I have them in the lot and have time. Match em up later and add the tag number to the login number. Very few times do I experience a calf that never hangs with mama... but it does happen and I have to figure it out by elimination.

 

[Dave]

There may be producers, like Dave, who move pairs at first working where this might not work. I have to think they are a small percentage, though.

A small percentage like most of the ranchers in eastern Washington and Oregon, northern California, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, and Nebraska. And I am certain I left out some pretty large areas. These are by gosh real deal cowboys and cattlemen who work from before dawn to after dark 7 days a week. If there was a quicker easier way to get it done they would have been doing it years ago.
Frankly I don't know why these people with a dozen cows bother to tag their calves at all. Back when I only had a dozen cows I knew which calf belonged with which cow and none of them, cows or calves, were tagged.

 

[gcreekrch]

You have already received answers, both pro & con, that are evidently not satisfactory. So I'll provide more detail on what works for my operation (not yours, not my neighbors).

I do not have a large herd; average 50 cow/calf pairs. I see my cattle every day; multiple times during calving. My tagging system is a cluster only I understand with different colored tags, a numbering/identification based on lineage & number of calves per dam, right ear = bulls, left ear = heifers, etc.

I don't vaccinate my cows with Sour Bos prior to calving (used to but, long story), so each calf gets a First Defense bolus, preferably within 12 hours of birth. Never had a problem with pneumonia until a few years ago, so added Inforce 3 at birth when I tag & administer the bolus.

When I go out to take inventory, I can easily identify the calves, based on their tag and check them off the list. Calves are not always with their dam - especially when they get older. If a calf is sick and I need to get it to the barn, I don't have to wander around all day, waiting for it's mama to start looking for it & bellowing.

Tagging at birth works for me because I keep diligent records, which proves beneficial when deciding which calves to retain and which cows to cull.

A phrase I use a lot is "You do you".

Going down the feed row with three hundred cows lined up gives one a chance to see who might have a full bag and possibly a calf not feeling well. Finding the already tagged calf that had taken an average of a minute to process shortly after birth is a whole lot easier than waiting for the cow to finish eating and find her calf. I would rather doctor a calf that can be easily treated than find one flat out and really sick.
So many pros as mentioned not to repeat the idiocy of finding #286 calf for #34 cow, first in your book and then physically. Also far easier to look at pairs on the range and have matching numbers than be searching "the Book" for numbers while the cattle are wandering off into the bush.
Our cattle are very protective of their calves but they also know respect for my quad. As long as I don't leave it's safety I am just fine. If a cow needs reminding, a few bumps will give her renewed respect.
Heifer calves coming down the alley in the fall are easily kept or culled by not stopping each one and searching "the Book" continuously. A cattleman should know his cows, especially the poor and cull end!

As Dave has indicated, we once only had a handful of cows, no tags but we knew each and every one.

 

[Silver]

Then there's poor schmucks like myself that don't work their calves until weaning time so the only time to tag and process them is at birth

 

[Buck Randall]

Then there's poor schmucks like myself that don't work their calves until weaning time so the only time to tag and process them is at birth

That would be most people in the upper Midwest.

 

[Warren Allison]

@anewcomer ....Dave, Silver, gcreekrch, have all given good reasons why most people tag at birth. In my case, I found it a lot easier on me and my horse, to just step out of the saddle for less than a minute, and pop a tag in a calf's ear. Like many folks, my tags always had part of the cow's tag number in it, too. It makes working them in a few months so much easier as well. We could cut the heifers into one pen to be wormed, vaccinated etc, and the boys into another for harvesting the mtn oysters, then on to the worm/vacc pen. I have had cows calving in pastures, and helped pother people with the same problem, that had no barns, working pens, etc. Just a corral, or brought in panels to make one. Again. lot easier to tag a new born, than heeling and dragging a 3 months old.. then waiting around after it is over., to try to pair them back up and write down random tag numbers. Also, in the deep south, a lot of folks spray the naval to prevent screw worms and other flies from getting maggots in it.

 

[TCRanch]

I'll add one more pro (again, for my operation): There is appx. 4 miles of township road in various sections around the ranch. It is not uncommon for a calf to bed down along a fence row because the grass is so thick - and inadvertently move/wiggle/roll under the fence. And now I have a calf out. Or sometimes they just freakin' get out. And I'm not watching them 24/7. So, when I get a call from a neighbor, pumper (oil wells), etc. that a calf is out, I know it's mine. If the tag doesn't match or not tagged at all, I know it belongs to a neighbor.

But back to the original point of the thread: safety first. My girls are extremely docile, but there are a few that get downright testy right after they calve. I generally have my husband keep the mama occupied with cubes while I tag/work the calf, but I trust my gut. If it doesn't feel safe, I either give her a day to simmer or pick my battles and wait until the opportunity presents itself. No tag is worth getting hurt.