One More Clover Question...

[Chuckie]

Has anyone ever sown rye grass and red clover in the fall and got a good stand of clover along with the rye grass the following spring? I am thinking about sewing the clover with to cut for hay. If it doesn't establish enough to show up the first year, then it will be a waste of money.

 

[shorty]

If you don't do it to late it should work I'm much further north than you, we do it mid to late august and it works good for as long as we get a little rain to get it started. I don't know how late you could get away with it. I use orchard grass instesad of ryegrass.

 

[Chuckie]

Shorty, I will sow Orchard grass and clover in one field meant to be pasture. The other field I want to plant in bermuda grass next spring. I wanted to utilize the bermuda field this fall for hay, then disk it up next spring to sew the bermuda. I could not start on it this year since I had to let the tennants work it one more year. We give one season to let them work the ground before we take it back. I was wondering if the thickness of the rye grass would totally over take the red clover.

 

[Lngvew]

I plant orchard grass and fescue with red clover in the fall. Seed it right along with my winter wheat. Get a good fall cutting of hay the next year if weather is good and the hay stand is good for about 5 years. If you want to use ryegrass for a early spring cutting I would suggest using crimson clover, good feed value, will come up in the tar road and ryegrass wont choke it out. I use the stuff on these po virginia knobs with hairy vetch. Cows will lick the ground.

 

[Chuckie]

With Shorty's help, he showed me that I would not have the time to get the rye and clover to the height that it needed before I had to come in with the bermuda. I was looking at the wheat around, and it is just getting tall enough now to get a light cutting at best. Rye would be in the same growth slot as the wheat. I want to sow the bermuda around the 1st of April next year. It says if you wait much longer, then you give crabgrass a chance to beat it out. So far, crab grass is not showing up here. But the bermuda is starting to green up. Maybe I can get one cutting of the bermuda by the end of the season, but it won't be much. Hopefully the orchard grass and clover will come around and give a cutting or two before the season is up. I will look into the crimson clover. It sounds like a strong germinator. We have vetch coming up everywhere wild here. I have not noticed if the cattle eat it or not. I guess I just didn't thnk about it. There was a spot of it in a back pasture we held them out of till now and I will walk back and see what they did with it. I read where others talked about their cattle eating it too.

 

[MY]

Chuckie,

If you have a threat of crabgrass ruining anything you want to plant, you have some options. There are crabgrass specific pre-emergent herbicides like Balan that will nip the whole crabgrass problem in the bud pretty well. Out west anyhow, it's best to put down a crabgrass pre-emergent sometime in February to stop any seed from establishing itself. A couple seasons of this and you can get a real good handle on crabgrass. It's not going to be cheap, but neither is seeding something in and having crabgrass take over.

Also, if you have the same type of vetch that we do, then they prefer to eat it when it's dried out a tad. If they haven't got on it yet don't give up hope, look in about 6 weeks again when it's drying up and you may find them eating it real well.

 

[Chuckie]

Thanks MY. We do have crabgrass and vetch. Hopefully, I can get a hold on the crabgrass before seeding with grass and clover.

 

[MrBilly]

Becareful with crabgrass preemergents, for I believe they are not to be used on pasture or hayfields - not sure why? They are for lawns only, no?

The reason I say this is that I spoke with our weed scientist about doing something in our Bermuda field with the crabgrass, and he said you can NOT use the stuff for lawns on the hayfield.

I would check this out carefully.

Billy

 

[Chuckie]

Mr Billy, I hope with the last 12 years this ground has been in cotton and soybeans, that the crabgrass has disappeared. That may be wishful thinking, but the Round up ready cotton has kept the weeds from reseeding. I have heard that some weed seeds lay dormant for years. I guess I will be able to find out if this is true or not. If crabgrass only comes up in spots, then I will get real energetic and spot spray with a hand sprayer. I will find out what chemicals I can use on the pasture and hay fields that will be OK for livestock if it comes to that. Thanks!

 

[ctlbaron]

Hey Chuckie, If you can catch a snow in February or March sow your seed then. The snow melts and pulls the seed into the ground. You will get a much better stand that way.

 

[Chuckie]

Hey ctlbaron! The sad part about that is, we very seldom get snows in West Tennessee. I am in Nashville every night and I see more snow there than I do on this end. But that is good to know. It would be my luck for it to snow one week night and be gone by the next day. Maybe we will get lucky and catch some next winter. I have always heard that lespedeza does better on snow too. I have not had the chance to try that one either.

 

[MY]

MrBilly, Can't seem to find a Balan label online, and I don't have any here. However, this link from U of Florida shows it's use with alfalfa crop at 2 lbs per acre with there being some stand reduction.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/WG213

also exceprted from this site:
http://cipm.ncsu.edu/cropprofiles/docs/VAalfalfa.html

pertaining to the same (alfalfa and crabgrass) was this text:

benefin (Balan 60DF) - PHI - N/A. Dinitroanilines. Apply to clean, dry soil surface no more than 10 weeks before planting for control of annual grasses and broadleaf weeds at 1.2-1.5 lb. a.i./A. Incorporate within 4 to 8 hours with a disk set to cut 4 to 6 inches and operate in two different directions at 4 to 6 mph or with power takeoff-driven equipment set to cut 2 to 3 inches deep once over. See label, and adjust rate to soil texture. REI - 12 hours.

Again, not sure what the label says, but I know the stuff works, and apparently is being used in at least some alfalfa hay crops.

 

[MrBilly]

Hey thanks but when I click your links, both of them, I go to a Microsoft XP update page??? Do I have spooks in my puter, or what?

Billy 8)

 

[MY]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, not working for me either. The http text comes up twice in the address bar.

Try to Copy and Paste these, they're working that way:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/WG213


http://cipm.ncsu.edu/cropprofiles/docs/VAalfalfa.html

 

[BC]

Here is a good source of pesticide labels. You have to register but it is free.

http://www.greenbook.net/

Balan is not cleared for pastures in Texas. It may vary from state to state. Read the label, it is the law.