One last topline debate after the last, last topline debate

[alacattleman]

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[ROB]

Knersie- i've come to value your opinion dealing with phenotype, and structure. would you comment on the bull i posted a photo of in this thread? thanks.

ROB

 

[3waycross]

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How did you manage to find a Whitefaced Polled Wildebeast??????????

 

[alexfarms]

I like a straight top line. I like cattle that don't run downhill from back to front. If they run downhill from back to front they seem to be later maturing and harder keeping. I have seen some good old bulls that ran uphill from back to front, but you don't see a lot of them anymore. Pictures can be taken to make them look almost anyway you want them to look.
john

 

[whitecow]

Here is a yearling heifer with a topline that I like...

 

[KNERSIE]

I guess we're going to disagree , mildly. I think a better indicator of shoulder placement is the position of the head and neck. The RA bull freely raises his head. The hereford seems a little restricted to me. The RA bull isn't mine of course and I've never used him. I just think he has a nice profile for a mature bull.

The RA bull has more neck extension than the hereford, of that there is no doubt, other than showring presence I don't see any use for that extension. I've never seen a neck too short so that the animal can't graze.

If the stance was natural and the bull wasn't on a halter or in the alert position I agree that the natural position the head is held is about the best indication of straight shoulders for those who can't see the angle of the shoulders underneath the hide.

In this case (both bulls) I'll bet my bottom $ that they were on a halter or a noseclip and the halter was photoshopped out later. The first photo of the herefordbull he had a noseclip in that was photoshopped out. (I have the original photo)

 

[oakcreekfarms]

Knersie, is that Global. I have been looking into using that bull for awhile now. I think structurally he is about close to perfect, and I would think his calves would have great muscle and depth in their rear quarter. He is below average on REA I believe, and maybe on Marb as well. I have always liked his sire Mutombo but haven't seen either bull in person (just photos)

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie- i've come to value your opinion dealing with phenotype, and structure. would you comment on the bull i posted a photo of in this thread? thanks.

ROB

With regards to structure only or the complete package?

 

[Ned Jr.]

Knersie, I agree with you on what an ideal top should look like except for I don't mind a taller fronted bull. I've always heard taller fronted bulls are supposed to be more maternal. I also like slightly expressive loins but I stress slightly, to much and their rear legs seem to go back.

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie, is that Global. I have been looking into using that bull for awhile now. I think structurally he is about close to perfect, and I would think his calves would have great muscle and depth in their rear quarter. He is below average on REA I believe, and maybe on Marb as well. I have always liked his sire Mutombo but haven't seen either bull in person (just photos)

Yes, that's WLB Global 72M 50S. I am in the process of arranging to import a few straws of semen. I can't remember what his REA or IMF EPDs look like, but the accuracies are so low that I don't pay them much attention. I'll send you an e-mail tonight.

 

[Aaron]

 

[Aaron]

Knersie, is that Global. I have been looking into using that bull for awhile now. I think structurally he is about close to perfect, and I would think his calves would have great muscle and depth in their rear quarter. He is below average on REA I believe, and maybe on Marb as well. I have always liked his sire Mutombo but haven't seen either bull in person (just photos)

I saw Mutumbo last year when he was sold. Powerful bull, moderate frame and as wide over the top as a freight train. I think he is a better bull than Global. :cowboy:

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie, is that Global. I have been looking into using that bull for awhile now. I think structurally he is about close to perfect, and I would think his calves would have great muscle and depth in their rear quarter. He is below average on REA I believe, and maybe on Marb as well. I have always liked his sire Mutombo but haven't seen either bull in person (just photos)

I saw Mutumbo last year when he was sold. Powerful bull, moderate frame and as wide over the top as a freight train. I think he is a better bull than Global.:cowboy:

Certainly more proven, I would have prefered Mutumbo myself, but I believe there is semen freezing issues. Which ever way there is no semen currently available that I am aware of. Also when it comes to importing semen its so much simpler to use the bigger companies like Semex than to try and do it yourself.

Of the Mutumbo sons with semen currently readily available, I think Global is about the best.

How moderate is Mutumbo? Frame?

 

[Aaron]

Knersie, is that Global. I have been looking into using that bull for awhile now. I think structurally he is about close to perfect, and I would think his calves would have great muscle and depth in their rear quarter. He is below average on REA I believe, and maybe on Marb as well. I have always liked his sire Mutombo but haven't seen either bull in person (just photos)

I saw Mutumbo last year when he was sold. Powerful bull, moderate frame and as wide over the top as a freight train. I think he is a better bull than Global.:cowboy:

How moderate is Mutumbo? Frame?

No idea. Visual comparison amongst other bulls of his age only. Again, he's a Remitall-backed bull, so my interest in him fades beyond what I see visually. :cowboy:

 

[Lorenzo]

Hi,
Here is another bull from one of my clients, it seems his head is not in a good position but you can see the back clearly.
Is that back correct or not ?

 

[ANAZAZI]

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How did you manage to find a Whitefaced Polled Wildebeast??????????

I think that its just a dehorned whitefaced wildebeast, so what is the excitement?

 

[KNERSIE]

Lorenzo,

Your bull's topline is OK, but not perfect, he is very short fronted though and his coat won't suit my conditions.

 

[KNERSIE]

:hat:View attachment 1

How did you manage to find a Whitefaced Polled Wildebeast??????????

That's the beauty of using a hereford bull, he'll stamp the white face on everything ;-)

 

[Keren]

Knersie, just wondering what it is that makes some Hfords have that curly coat, and others not? What about the coat makes Lorenzo's bull unsuitable for your system?

I have always wondered about the bull curls ...

 

[Lorenzo]

What are curls ? in spanish please :lol2:
Seriously, explain it a little bit easier for me. Why a curly coat (what ever that means :lol2: ) can make a bull better than other to a given place ?

Knersie,

There is something in that bull (the one I posted) that I don't like and I am not sure what is.. :?
Maybe the bone of the back leg doesn't look too thick near the hoof, or is just the picture ?? :?

Thanks
Lorenzo