One last topline debate after the last, last topline debate

[KNERSIE]

I am curious what other members' ideal topline looks like. The goal isn't to convince or convert anyone, I am just curious to know whether we look at the same thing when we talk about toplines.

I'll go first and won't give reasons for now, I'll just describe what I see as the ideal.

For me the topline starts at the shoulders and stops at the tailhead. At the shoulders I want the tops of the scapulae to be exactly the same level as the top of the spine. Just behind the shoulders I want a strong attachment with the ribcage with a good muscle cover running all the way to the hooks. I prefer a slightly bulging loin with hooks neatly laid in and not very visible in bulls. The topline needs to be flexible and completely level with the exception of the slightly bulging loin. The tailhead needs to be neatly laid in and not give the baboontail impression. I want the rump round and bulging and not flat with good width running from end to end.

If anyone has a photo of their ideal topline please post it, doesn't need to be your own bull, could be any AI sire as well.

This is close to my ideal topline, note the slightly bulgong loin.

 

[dun]

This is what I look for in a toplines in cows or bulls

 

[blackcowz]

This is what I look for in a toplines in cows or bulls

I second that one. That is one heck of a heifer, dun. That there topline looks real good. Since I ain't been keeping up on these debates, is there some sort of advantage to having a swayback animal?

 

[KNERSIE]

This is what I look for in a toplines in cows or bulls

I second that one. That is one heck of a heifer, dun. That there topline looks real good. Since I ain't been keeping up on these debates, is there some sort of advantage to having a swayback animal?

That depends on whom you speak with.

 

[alacattleman]

the bull you posted a while back " your neighbors bull" too me is a great example... of what i would call near perfect structure........

 

[KNERSIE]

the bull you posted a while back " your neighbors bull" too me is a great example... of what i would call near perfect structure........

This one?

He has good structure, but his loin could have been slightly stronger.

 

[ollie?]

Tops, shoulder, flank, and rump have to blend together to suit me.
http://www.bovine-elite.com/angredepd2. ... 61&id2nd=0

 

[KNERSIE]

Tops, shoulder, flank, and rump have to blend together to suit me.
http://www.bovine-elite.com/angredepd2. ... 61&id2nd=0

I hope you don't mind, but I've copied the photo to make it easier to see

This is what I regard as less than perfect shoulders making the topline look worse than it is.

 

[alacattleman]

the bull you posted a while back " your neighbors bull" too me is a great example... of what i would call near perfect structure........

This one?

He has good structure, but his loin could have been slightly stronger.

that's the one

 

[RD-Sam]

I like the topline and tailset on this bull. Feel free to let me know if you see anything wrong, I may learn something.

 

[ollie?]

Tops, shoulder, flank, and rump have to blend together to suit me.
http://www.bovine-elite.com/angredepd2. ... 61&id2nd=0

I hope you don't mind,

This is what I regard as less than perfect shoulders making the topline look worse than it is.

Glad you did. It makes it easier to discuss. You don't like the scapula sticking up on the RA bull but the lack of proper slope on the first hereford doesn't bother you? If the first hereford bull took a half step back with his right front leg, his scapulae would stick up more.

 

[cfpinz]

..., is there some sort of advantage to having a swayback animal?

Yup, you won't need a saddle.

 

[ROB]

i've always liked the topline of this bull.

ROB

 

[KNERSIE]

Ollie, you need to be more specific, which hereford and what slope are you referring to?

 

[ollie?]

Sorry Knersie, the first thumbnail picture you posted? Isn't that a hereford ...could be a simmental I guess but either way, you move his right front foot backward half a step and his shoulder becomes straiter and his scapula on the same side raises an inch.

 

[KNERSIE]

Tops, shoulder, flank, and rump have to blend together to suit me.
http://www.bovine-elite.com/angredepd2. ... 61&id2nd=0

I hope you don't mind,

This is what I regard as less than perfect shoulders making the topline look worse than it is.

Glad you did. It makes it easier to discuss. You don't like the scapula sticking up on the RA bull but the lack of proper slope on the first hereford doesn't bother you? If the first hereford bull took a half step back with his right front leg, his scapulae would stick up more.

Just for shites and giggles here is photo of the same bull taken when he was younger, maybe you can point out what you are seeing here?

You don't like the scapula sticking up on the RA bull

Not quite, I don't like the cause of the scapulae protruding above the level of the spine.

 

[ollie?]

Nice bull. I wouldn't have a problem using him. He's very well made. His shoulders are too strait to be perfect. There are no perfect bulls.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... cture1.gif

 

[KNERSIE]

Nice bull. I wouldn't have a problem using him. He's very well made. His shoulders are too strait to be perfect. There are no perfect bulls.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... cture1.gif

Here's your pic

I guess we have to agree to disagree, my problem with the bull you posted is exactly what you say the fault with the hereford bull is.

Also straight shoulders are usually associated with less than ideal set to the hocks (ie post legged). I think the hereford bull has more set to both the hocks and shoulders than the RA bull. It's marginal, but that's the way I see it.

BTW the hereford bull is a Canadian bull that I have no interest in except that I looked into him fora possible outcross sire.

 

[ollie?]

I guess we're going to disagree , mildly. I think a better indicator of shoulder placement is the position of the head and neck. The RA bull freely raises his head. The hereford seems a little restricted to me. The RA bull isn't mine of course and I've never used him. I just think he has a nice profile for a mature bull.

 

[bandit80]

This is what I look for in a toplines in cows or bulls

Me too.