Older Cow/calf pairs

[Little Joe]

I've been thinking about buying SS,BMor thin cow/calf pairs in late winter - early spring, sell cows in fall by the pound, retain all calves on stockpiled fescue through winter. Retain the off color or less valued calves to finish for my direct marketing beef business and sell the better ones as long weaned pre-vac in Spring. What would be the downside to this business model? What are some things to consider? Any advice from @Dave since you do something similar with breds,or @kenny thomas would also be greatly appreciated since you do some cattle trading.

 

[Dave]

Don't spend a lot of money on the cows when you buy them. Figure what the average kill cow is bringing and add $50 maximum. If it is available where you are sell the cows direct to the plant. Avoid the cows who look really old. Those are usually the ones most often the losers. But realize going into this that you may lose a cow or two. Calves will generally be a box of crayons. That is just the way it is.

 

[Stocker Steve]

1) Here you pay a big premium for pairs. Heavy bred could pay better if you have the time and the skill?
2) Calf fleshing ability will be variable and most will not fit well with grass finishing. How many do you need for grass finishing?
3) Long lead time to maturity means low inventory turns. Can you just buy short off color heifers and skip the cow calf thing?

 

[Little Joe]

1) Here you pay a big premium for pairs. Heavy bred could pay better if you have the time and the skill?
2) Calf fleshing ability will be variable and most will not fit well with grass finishing. How many do you need for grass finishing?
3) Long lead time to maturity means low inventory turns. Can you just buy short off color heifers and skip the cow calf thing?

I don't grass finish, I grain at 1.5% as well as rotational graze. The ones I have now will finish pretty much on just grain. Right now I only need 5 or 6 a year to direct market, hoping that will grow in the years to come. With my day job I worry about calving out cows bred to unknown bulls, I'm not home all day and leave early in morning so evenings are when I have time to fool with them. I'm afraid I'd lose too many by not being around to calve them out. And if I only ran the calves I finish I feel like I'm leaving money on the table because I'll have alot of pasture that wouldn't get grazed. I realize cow/calf pairs are gonna run higher than breds but it's a little more peace of mind and one less thing to worry about not having to calve them out. My hope were that if I bought some that were thinner that I'd be able to add value to the cow and get alot of my money back out of the deal when I sell her. I figured by not having to winter cows, you'd do alright considering you end up with calves but no wintering cows.

I just bought more acreage that joins me so trying to figure out something to go along with the direct marketing to graze the extra ground. In the past, every time I've tried buying some good cows and keeping my own cow/calf pairs, seems I always lose money that way. When your not running many head,losing a calf or two is detrimental to the operation. And then when you cull the cow that lost the calf, if you haven't had her long you lose your shorts on that deal too. I've got some longhorn type mamas that I bought cheap that had calves by black baldy and I bred back to ultra black, but they're not a long term deal, just bought them to make a few bucks and move them on. I've thought about stockers but the margins are really tight on that. If I were selling more volume I'd definitely just be doing as you said and buying off color stockers and finishing out.

 

[Peace]

I don't grass finish, I grain at 1.5% as well as rotational graze. The ones I have now will finish pretty much on just grain. Right now I only need 5 or 6 a year to direct market, hoping that will grow in the years to come. With my day job I worry about calving out cows bred to unknown bulls, I'm not home all day and leave early in morning so evenings are when I have time to fool with them. I'm afraid I'd lose too many by not being around to calve them out. And if I only ran the calves I finish I feel like I'm leaving money on the table because I'll have alot of pasture that wouldn't get grazed. I realize cow/calf pairs are gonna run higher than breds but it's a little more peace of mind and one less thing to worry about not having to calve them out. My hope were that if I bought some that were thinner that I'd be able to add value to the cow and get alot of my money back out of the deal when I sell her. I figured by not having to winter cows, you'd do alright considering you end up with calves but no wintering cows.

I just bought more acreage that joins me so trying to figure out something to go along with the direct marketing to graze the extra ground. In the past, every time I've tried buying some good cows and keeping my own cow/calf pairs, seems I always lose money that way. When your not running many head,losing a calf or two is detrimental to the operation. And then when you cull the cow that lost the calf, if you haven't had her long you lose your shorts on that deal too. I've got some longhorn type mamas that I bought cheap that had calves by black baldy and I bred back to ultra black, but they're not a long term deal, just bought them to make a few bucks and move them on. I've thought about stockers but the margins are really tight on that. If I were selling more volume I'd definitely just be doing as you said and buying off color stockers and finishing out.

Check this out....and he has a couple more videos on it

 

[Little Joe]

Check this out....and he has a couple more videos on it

I wonder where he's marketing that much beef at a time?

 

[Peace]

I wonder where he's marketing that much beef at a time?

In the comments of the video he tells somebody Shennandoah Valley, Va.

 

[Allenw]

Check this out....and he has a couple more videos on it

He runs them a year? You can stack a lot of weight on a cow in 90 to 120 days and they don't take real special feed to do it either,

 

[Allenw]

Know your market when playing the cow game.

 

[Peace]

He runs them a year? You can stack a lot of weight on a cow in 90 to 120 days and they don't take real special feed to do it either,

He's not feeding them, just grass and mineral. So his only expense is his time, mineral and pasture.

 

[Dave]

I know two guys who make decent coin with cull cows. One buys thin cows this time of the year. Very little feed before grass. Uses them to take off the extra grass in the spring flush. Sells them in mid June. Nothing gains on grass like a thin open cow. You not only get the weight gain but you also gain value on the pounds that were originally purchased.
The other guy makes a lot of hay. In the fall he buys younger looking cows out of the weigh pen. Has them preg checked. A surprising number of them are bred. Keeps the bred ones and hauls the opens direct to the plant where he breaks even on them. Feeds his extra hay to those bred cows. Calves them out and sells as pairs in the spring.

 

[Allenw]

He's not feeding them, just grass and mineral. So his only expense is his time, mineral and pasture.

I've handled a few cows, I know what you can do with them. With the 5 to 10 % death loss he talked about he's buying bottom end cows without much upside potential in my opinion.

 

[1982vett]

I've been thinking about buying SS,BMor thin cow/calf pairs in late winter - early spring, sell cows in fall by the pound, retain all calves on stockpiled fescue through winter. Retain the off color or less valued calves to finish for my direct marketing beef business and sell the better ones as long weaned pre-vac in Spring. What would be the downside to this business model? What are some things to consider? Any advice from @Dave since you do something similar with breds,or @kenny thomas would also be greatly appreciated since you do some cattle trading.

I'm on board with Dave's train of thought. Haven't done it much but hit it right last year but I cashed out last February when fat cows hit 70 cents and the covid scare started. Passed on it this year mostly because of weather and pasture conditions.
Only thing I question your decision to direct market your least desirable specimens to your customers rather than your best. Reputation for quality of meat comes to mind...yes I know it's all red meat under the hide but I can go to a meat counter and find meat graded choice that I'd slap a select label on if it were up to me. Just my 2 cents....

 

[Little Joe]

I'm on board with Dave's train of thought. Haven't done it much but hit it right last year but I cashed out last February when fat cows hit 70 cents and the covid scare started. Passed on it this year mostly because of weather and pasture conditions.
Only thing I question your decision to direct market your least desirable specimens to your customers rather than your best. Reputation for quality of meat comes to mind...yes I know it's all red meat under the hide but I can go to a meat counter and find meat graded choice that I'd slap a select label on if it were up to me. Just my 2 cents...,

I said least valuable, I meant such as off color or keeping a heifer over a steer or maybe a smaller frame type. Animals that still finish well but are not what the feedlots pay top dollar for.

 

[Little Joe]

In the comments of the video he tells somebody Shennandoah Valley, Va.

I meant to whom is he direct marketing them to?

 

[Peace]

I meant to whom is he direct marketing them to?

My guess would be the same people Salatin is marketing to. People that don't want to buy beef/eggs/chickens and the like from a grocery store.

 

[Dave]

Grind a decent condition older beef cow and sell the burger to people who have been getting their hamburger from the grocery store. They was rant and rave about how good it is and want more. As for steaks and roasts you better be up front about where it came from.

 

[C-Ranch]

I agree with Dave. I send my good older cows and have them made into hamburger and the rest go to a cull buyer. I save the younger finished cows (2yrs and under) for the better cuttings. You'd be surprised how fast hamburger moves. The problem your more than likely going to run into is getting them into the plant for processing. Which isn't a bad thing as it gives you time to get rid of the first batch of meat.
On a side note, if your selling individual cuts of meat to end users make sure you use a USDA inspected plant and check with your local Food inspector on the required permits and correct labeling requirements.