Old school Simmental/Fleckvieh bulls

[goddy]

Today's Fleckvieh has been breed to be more moderate in size. They do have a beef scale, and some of them are definitely calving ease bull. Even still today, many breeders think back to the 70's and early 80's with the calving difficulty that the Simmental had. But, with what we have discovered is that many of the German and Austrian Fleckvieh bulls even then were more moderate in size as compared to the Simmental.

I wouldn't worry like some seen to think in using fullblood genetics. Fleckvieh bulls have been used on Holstein heifers and even Jerseys with no more calving problems or difficulties that using bulls within breed.

As with using any bull calving ease needs to be reviewed.

I agree totally with your post. It was more the purebreds that took the breed in the wrong direction - huge frame, high bw - than the full bloods.

 

[dun]

I remember when Simmenthals were first introduced, and yes there was a problem with some of the bulls calving ease. Much like charolais when they first came in. Folks were breeding for high weaning weights and along with it came in many cases high birthweights and also very blocky claves. Like was said above, a lot has changed in 33 years. Simmenthals have become more like angus from back then and angus have increased to be more like the original Simmenthals (or about any european breed).The origianl selection criteria may have been a bit faulty and they tried to correct that when Gelbviehs came in. Those original Simmenthals and Fleckviehs when bred to appropriate cows didn;t have the calving issues that the breeds are remembered for. We had serious issues with charolais many years ago and if I tried to use one today my wife would probably shoot me.

 

[Lucky_P]

Supa...not at all. +25 still puts him in the top 25% of the breed... higher than some of the bulls I'm currently using, less than others.
In fact, I usually select for lower milk numbers in most bulls of any breed I use; I'm breeding beef cattle, not dairy.
It's not a maternal trait, it's a production trait, and there's a feed and (potentially) fertility cost associated with it.
Now that the Shorthorns have moved to the same epd base as the Simmentals and Red Angus, one of the Shorthorn bulls I've been using now has a -1 Maternal Milk; I guarantee you his daughters produce plenty of milk to raise a good calf.

Even back in the '80s, when I first started incorporating Simmental genetics into my herd, the Fleckvieh cattle were heavier-muscled and more moderate in frame than the Swiss & French types that were in the first wave of Simmental cattle introduced to the US.
Base herd here was linebred to 809,his sire (ABR Sir Arnold G809), and G809's full brother. When I dropped that project and came back over those cows with Angus sires 15 years later, the Angus-sired heifers have almost all matured as much larger/taller cows than the Fleckvieh-influenced cows they came out of.

 

[JHH]

Does anyone have any birthweight experience with these Bulls? They interest me as terminals just scared what they can do to my commercial Herefords.


A lot has changed in 33 years.

Musta been some tiny cows - or overfed. Dad had lots of luck breeding the big yellow ABS Simmental bulls of the late 70's, early 80's to his Hereford/Shorthorn cows. His favorite cross of all-time is still the 1/4 Simm x 3/4 Hereford cow. Very popular cross in western Canada as well, maybe not the equivalent of a black baldy, but not far from it. Fleck Simm breeders have come a long way with calving ease.

Aaron, these were old school frame 4 best I can remember. Traditional herfs. Not your big 6-7 frame cows of today. Yes they were cow killers. Seen it with my own eyes. done several C-sections. ruined a good number of cows having 120lb calves. Neighbor done it with his angus to is what he says. I don't know about that. So yes small cows.

Ryan ask me and I know his herfs are smaller framed and I wouldn't go there. With a bigger cow I wouldn't hesistate.

As was said a lot changes in 33 years but he said OLD SCHOOL so I assume older genetics.

 

[Lucky_P]

Point to JHH. Certainly a lot of those original imports and some of the 10-frame things that were created here after they arrived that I wouldn't use then or now.
But there are several of those 1980s Simmental bulls that I'd use again without a worry - and they would make some good cattle - again; just not the direction I'm going with my program right now.
But, there's probably a lot of them that are best left in the past...as is the case with most bulls of most breeds.
Traditionally marked Simmentals still have an appeal to me - and to some other folks, and if the 'black' deal ever fades away, they may make a comeback - it's hard today to find a white/blaze-faced Simmie, red or black, that offers everything I'm looking for.

 

[Waterway65]

True but there are some. Beef Maker is one I highly recommend and there are others. I would recommend you go on the Internet and check out Wilkersons Broken Heart Ranch. It should be of interest to you. I am also doing a somewhat similar plan to you. Mel

 

[Supa Dexta]

Supa...not at all. +25 still puts him in the top 25% of the breed... higher than some of the bulls I'm currently using, less than others.

Can you point me towards that 25 number. I have something confused here.

 

[Lucky_P]

SD,
You were looking at that 2010 epd profile - only place I could find with a photo. ASA has 'adjusted' epd bases since then - numbers changed significantly in some instances, but percentile ranks should have stayed pretty constant.

Current Pedigree/epds here for DS Pollfleck 809:
https://herdbook.org/simmapp/action/ani ... er=1122699

 

[Supa Dexta]

Ah yes, that makes more sense now. thanks.

 

[UG]

Jerry Brink of Brink Genetics (www.brinkgenetics.com) in Iowa is a true stockman. He has been breeding livestock for many years and understands the importance of structure, maternal traits, and good carcass characteristics.

I have been to his place a couple times and have been impressed with the moderate framed, big-bodied cows. I have AI'd a few cows to Brink bulls and have a really nice 9 month old Ambrose daughter that we are keeping as a replacement.

Check out Jerry's web pages to learn more about his breeding program. I would also encourage you to call Jerry ({563} 880-1470); he is very personable and enjoys talking cattle.

 

[goddy]

Jerry Brink of Brink Genetics (http://www.brinkgenetics.com) in Iowa is a true stockman. He has been breeding livestock for many years and understands the importance of structure, maternal traits, and good carcass characteristics.

I have been to his place a couple times and have been impressed with the moderate framed, big-bodied cows. I have AI'd a few cows to Brink bulls and have a really nice 9 month old Ambrose daughter that we are keeping as a replacement.

Check out Jerry's web pages to learn more about his breeding program. I would also encourage you to call Jerry ({563} 880-1470); he is very personable and enjoys talking cattle.

That is a very impressive website - thanks

I don't see a semen for sale place on the site - does he sell through a semen distributor ?

 

[UG]

I purchased my semen direct from Brinks, so I would encourage you to give him a call direct to discuss which bulls may work best for your operation and goals.

 

[insurman]

The Brink Rite970 bull has a very impressive set of EPS's. Curvebending type of numbers from BW to YW with a top 1% in API and TI.

Would mind seeing him on a few of my Simbrah's.

 

[Till-Hill]

I know Accelerated Genetics used to have Brink bulls in lineup. Select Sires just added one to this years line up. He not on website yet but is in book if you download http://issuu.com/selectsiresbeef/docs/2 ... 1/10828160

I have been over there few times and used his semen on some commercial cows. If he had homo polled bulls I think they would be only ones I used. Them calves crush the scale and daughters carry a lot of flesh and still milk hard.