Old Bulls

[Carnivore]

I find it interesting that a bull is judged at full maturity, but his progeny will be killed and eaten at 2 years old. So, shouldn't one judge a bull by how he looks at 2 years old, cause that is when his sons will be eaten?

 

[Brandonm2]

Good point. Bulls probably are best judged at 14-18 months, because that is pretty close to where most calves get killed. Of course we measure the bull at birth to get an idea of what his calves will weigh at birth. We weigh the bull again at 205 days to get an idea what his calves will be like at weaning (market for most people). We weigh the bull again at 365 days to see what his calves will be like coming off of a stockering program. Ideally we then ultrasound several months later for carcass traits like REA, BF, and IMF and give him a breeding soundness exam to see that he checks out as a breeder. At 3 yo a bull is generally weighed and a final frame score is determined. This helps to produce an estimate of the progeny's mature frame and weight. A top herdsire prospect generally is visually evaluated at 205 days, 365 days, 18 months, 24 months, and at 36 months and increasingly, for a promoted bull, photos are taken at those steps.

 

[Frankie]

I find it interesting that a bull is judged at full maturity, but his prodegy (sp) will be killed and eaten at 2 years old. So, shouldn't one judge a bull by how he looks at 2 years old, cause that is when his sons will be eaten?

You're right, if you're judging him by his looks. If you're judging him by the calves he produces, it takes longer.

 

[ENNOT]

One thing to think about though is how the bull has been fed compared to how his offspring will be fed. A yearling bull that was out with a group of cows and then fed primarily hay all winter is not going to look a the same as a two year old steer that was on a concentrate ration since it was 10 to 12 months old. You have to remember that the female also has alot to do with the progeny, ie. frame, muscle, etc. It can become really difficult to determine what the progeny will be just by looking at the bull at two years of age.

 

[SEC]

The proof always comes in the pudding.

A good sire will leave progeny better than himself, we all need a bull that is one step away from being flawless rather than buying the "flawless" bull as he only has one way to go.

Mature frame score only indicates what that bull did for himself with frame. Yearling frame score is most important, hoping calves will level off at one year of age.

 

[mtnman]

I look at mature bulls because it gives me an indication of mature size and weight of his daughters.

An indication of foot quality and structure over time, too.

Mature size and weight are highly heritable, so as he is, so will his daughters be.

mtnman

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Agree with Mtnmn.

An old bull that still looks good and performs well indicates that his progeny have a better chance to do the same. Longevity is a desirable trait.

 

[SEC]

Will agree on the longevity.

I have seen many bulls that are one way and throw the other. I guess cows would have a big factor into it as well.

 

[Jovid]

Will agree on the longevity.

I have seen many bulls that are one way and throw the other. I guess cows would have a big factor into it as well.

:nod: