Old Bull and Replacement Bull

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arkie 74

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This is a young bull my mother purchased for an farmer private treaty. Not the best pictures, but they will do. Here's a link to his breeding.
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... MGV1018866

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This is the old man were replacing, but going to keep him around for insurance as long as he is an easy keeper. Unless we get an good offer from someone.
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... AMGV823388
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KNERSIE

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The bulls are very similar in type, but I also think you've taken a small step backwards.
 

Gelbvieh 5

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No offense but there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable about the new bull from his phenatype or his EPD's pretty average on both counts. Nothing bad just nothing real good either.

You don't show the EPD's on the old bull but like was said by another there's not a lot of difference except the new one appears to be polled.
 

DOC HARRIS

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I agree with cfpinz and others. Looking at both bulls from an unbiased point of view and having phenotype only as a point of referrence, your old bull has more length, greater spring of rib, deeper hindquarters, longer rump, and stands with his legs on the "four corners". He is a more well-balanced bull comparing him length-wise than the younger bull. The younger bull is obviously lacking a more arched spring of rib, which will restrict capacity of both his replacement heifers, if you plan to keep any, and also his feeder calves. He appears almost 'post-legged' and slightly cow-hocked. Look at how his hind feet point away from his center-line, even on the 3/4 angle picture.

I would suggest that you use great care as to the cows/heifers with whom you mate him. You don't want to lose what good phenotype quality you already posses. It takes too long to 'undo' a collection of mistakes from one season of mating the wrong traits into your herd. The "Old Man" is a pretty good looking Gelbvieh, and is NOT Funnel Butted! That negative characteristic is VERY difficult to eradicate from your Genetic base!

I usually don't like to critique an animal this severely from a couple or three pictures, but each picture shows me the same negative traits, which indicates that it usually is not the way they are standing at a particular moment.

Sorry to 'burst your bubble', but better now than later. I am afraid your new bull will cost you some time in the future to repair the damage. One caveat I'll offer; I haven't seen your cow herd, and that may make a significant difference in how your young bull may affect your herd genetics.

DOC HARRIS

PS- Oh yes, one more comment. What is that wavy line down the old bull's back?
 
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arkie 74

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I sure appreciate everyone's comments on both bulls. We have retained some heifers for replacements out of the old bull. We are still considering keeping him as long he stays sturcturally sound. The young bull is the first bull my mother and I have bought since we lost my father, and sometimes you don't appreciate their knowledge until you don't have it anymore. My Dad and I always picked out bulls together and he would ask for my opion on them. Maybe he was just being nice about it. I don't know what that line is on his back. It maybe where a tree limb rubed him as he was walking up a fence row right before the picture. Again thanks for all comments.
 

cfpinz

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It takes time. Find someone in your area that is well respected and has nice looking cattle, go to a few sales with them and pay attention.

There are a lot worse bulls out there than your new bull, but your old one is much better.

What part of KS are you in? We stopped by the Judd Ranch in Pomona a couple years ago, they've got some beautiful gelbviehs if you're so inclined.
 

double v

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why a bti extra son you loose alot in EPD'S, your older bull would be my pick. KKKG is a good breeder and that younger bull may suprise you in a years time. If you use the American Gelbvieh Association breeder directory you might have found something closer in Missouri maybe many good breeders in this state with some pretty good stock. Good luck with your new bull hope your cows are good milkers.
 

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