Oh No! Not Angus?

[Scotty]

I would like it if they switched over to that. The problem I see with that is who is going to classify the cattle. I have seen classifiers at stock shows taht couldtell an Angus calve from a Main. That a little exagerated but fits. The inspectors that grade beef make errors on the grading. Isn't that why companies are testing scanners that grade the carcass to take out human error. I read in the AJ that if the calves are tagged with Angus source tags they do not have a color requirement.

 

[VanC]

I read in the AJ that if the calves are tagged with Angus source tags they do not have a color requirement.

As it should be. The breed makup of the calf is much more important than the hide color, IMO.

 

[Frankie]

I've seen this before, and I don't think it's a fair comparison. Celebrities and corporations sell their names to products all the time. Everyone KNOWS that Michael Jordan doesn't make Nike Air Jordan shoes. Everyone KNOWS that Anheiser-Busch didn't build the car that Dale Jr. drives. Most people are bright enough to know that Nolan Ryan doesn't raise all the beef that bears his name. But when a consumer buys a CAB steak, they're going to ASSUME its Angus beef, which it may not be. They may not care as long as it's a good product, but they're still being mislead.

This is too ridiculous to argue with, but I will ONCE. Why do you ASSUME that people are bright enough to know that Nolan doesn't raise all the beef that bears his name, but not bright enough to know that CAB isn't all Angus? Remember, no one has shown that CAB didn't contain some Angus. And remember that Nolan Ryan does raise cattle; some of them may be in the package of beef with his name on it.

We have a situation now where a steak that's 0% Angus can qualify as CAB. That's wrong. No breed should be allowed to take credit for a product they didn't produce. It may be perfectly legal, but what's legal and what's right are quite often two different things.

Show me where a CAB steak has been shown to have 0 Angus. Look at the graphs Mike put up. Look at the percentage of beef that was proven to be Angus.

When CAB started up years ago, this wasn't a big problem. If the animal was black, you pretty much knew it had to have some Angus in it. That is no longer the case. Seems to me it would benefit Angus breeders if CAB were required to have at least 50% Angus blood like many of the other Angus products. That way, someone who is getting CAB premiums using other breeds would have to switch over to Angus if they wanted those premiums. If I were an Angus breeder, I would spend less time defending CAB, and more time trying to change it.

It's still the case. Call black Simmis, Limis, Salers, whatever name you want, but if they're black, they have some Angus in their background.

I'd be very happy for CAB to use only Angus-sired calves and think that will happen one of these days. Right now Nolan Ryan branded beef is no more or less honest than CAB.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not bashing Nolan Ryan beef. I have great respect for the breeders who started the program. Unlike other breeders that either turned their cattle black, or like Mike, sit around and whine, they had the courage to put their money where their mouth is and start their own branded beef program.

 

[VanC]

This is too ridiculous to argue with, but I will ONCE.

:lol: :lol: Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't, but your arrogance and condescending attitude never ceases to amaze me.

Why do you ASSUME that people are bright enough to know that Nolan doesn't raise all the beef that bears his name, but not bright enough to know that CAB isn't all Angus?

Good point. They're BOTH misleading.

Remember, no one has shown that CAB didn't contain some Angus.

Maybe they have and we just don't know about it yet. Either way, only a fool believes that it could NEVER happen. If someone with a vendetta digs deep enough, they'll find it.

And remember that Nolan Ryan does raise cattle; some of them may be in the package of beef with his name on it.

And some may not. That's the point. Remember, when you have to defend something by saying "others do it, too", there's trouble ahead.

Show me where a CAB steak has been shown to have 0 Angus.

I can't. The point is that the potential is there, which it shouldn't be. As a consumer, I love CAB, but, also as a consumer, I don't like being told something is one thing when it might be another. Others may feel the same way.

It's still the case. Call black Simmis, Limis, Salers, whatever name you want, but if they're black, they have some Angus in their background.

So if I have a bull that's 95% Simmie and 5% Angus, I can pass him off as Angus? Jeez, no wonder you're registrations keep going up! :lol: :lol:

I'd be very happy for CAB to use only Angus-sired calves and think that will happen one of these days.

Me, too, on both counts.

Right now Nolan Ryan branded beef is no more or less honest than CAB.

Or no more or less dishonest, depending on how you look at it.

I'm not bashing Nolan Ryan beef. I have great respect for the breeders who started the program.

Me, too, and I feel the same way about CAB and Angus breeders. The point I've been trying to make is that an excellent idea has taken a wrong turn. I don't believe for a second that the AAA went into this with the INTENTION of misleading the public, or that they are INTENTIONALLY doing it now. But things aren't the same as they were when the program was started. The potential for abuse is there, and that needs to be addressed. If some hotshot reporter with national influence decides to jump into this thing, well, who knows? People may not care, and then again they might make a mountain out of a molehill. Happens all the time. That would not be good for the Angus breed or the beef industry, and I don't want to see that happen.

 

[Frankie]

But when a consumer buys a CAB steak, they're going to ASSUME its Angus beef, which it may not be.

You speak for every consumer who buys a CAB steak and then call me arrogrant?

 

[la4angus]

So if I have a bull that's 95% Simmie and 5% Angus, I can pass him off as Angus? Jeez, no wonder you're registrations keep going up! :lol: :lol:

Wrong. If a bull is 95% Simmi or any other breed and 5% Angus YOU may try to pass him off as Angus, but he cannot be registered, so passing him off as Angus is only in your head, so that has no bearing on the registrations going up. Just send the registration fees to me if you have money that you want to get rid of that bad. I can always put it to good use. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[VanC]

It was a joke, LA. I was trying to make a point.

 

[VanC]

But when a consumer buys a CAB steak, they're going to ASSUME its Angus beef, which it may not be.

You speak for every consumer who buys a CAB steak and then call me arrogrant?

Yes.

Look, I've made my point and you've made yours. We will likely never agree on this. Let it go.

 

[Shorthornguy]

Mike C, Thanks for a great post and Thank all of you who replied. As in any business we cannot afford to lose the confidence of the customer. CAB needs a serious overhaul or it may end up hurting all of us in the beef business.

 

[CowpokeJ]

Jim Riemann, President CAB LLC to USDA listening session:

"I encourage USDAs Labeling and Consumer Protection Staff to withdraw all current label approvals and withhold approval of all label applications that identify product as DNA verified Angus........................"

Where's the link?

Whassamatter? Don't believe it? :lol:

Whassamatter, got no link? We don't see the context there. Are you substituting for guest25 and making stuff up?

Find it yourself. You've got everything you need to google it.

Making stuff up? Get real. :lol:

Hmmm. No link, huh? So why should anyone believe you?

Do you really think I made this up? :lol:

Now thats funny! I don't care who you are!

 

[Scotty]

Mike C, Thanks for a great post and Thank all of you who replied. As in any business we cannot afford to lose the confidence of the customer. CAB needs a serious overhaul or it may end up hurting all of us in the beef business.

Your right about consumer confidence but CAB is not going to hurt it. If anyhting is in need of a serious ovehaul it is the shorthorn breed. So great a breed it needs the RA breed to pull it out of the dumps. But it should be a nice three way cross. Shorthorn( short X main) X Red Angus.

 

[Schnurrbart]

I guess it is a matter of sematics. 100% Angus would normally register in most minds that 100% of the meat in that burger is Angus but I suppose it could also mean 100% of the Angus meat is 100% Angus and the rest is something else. I do believe that these outfits who advertise 100% Angus beef are misleading the public in most cases. I'm sure Hardees is because they are using CAB meat and that sure isn't all Angus. Which also brings up the purebred black simmies, limmies, ChiAngus, black Tarentaise and everything in between. I have some black Tarentaise that I could pass off as Angus and no one would know the dif after they have gone through the feed lot and the packer without a DNA test.

[Their Thickburger is advertised as 100% Angus but D-N-A tests show it's 70% Angus and 30% non-Angus. A spokesperson for the chain said in a statement that "our thickburgers are made with 100% Angus beef." ]

That is pretty slick. I guess if they had tested 1% angus and 99% non angus, they could still say made with 100% angus.

That still being said, I like my calves black.

 

[Frankie]

I guess it is a matter of sematics. 100% Angus would normally register in most minds that 100% of the meat in that burger is Angus but I suppose it could also mean 100% of the Angus meat is 100% Angus and the rest is something else. I do believe that these outfits who advertise 100% Angus beef are misleading the public in most cases. I'm sure Hardees is because they are using CAB meat and that sure isn't all Angus. Which also brings up the purebred black simmies, limmies, ChiAngus, black Tarentaise and everything in between. I have some black Tarentaise that I could pass off as Angus and no one would know the dif after they have gone through the feed lot and the packer without a DNA test.

[Their Thickburger is advertised as 100% Angus but D-N-A tests show it's 70% Angus and 30% non-Angus. A spokesperson for the chain said in a statement that "our thickburgers are made with 100% Angus beef." ]

That is pretty slick. I guess if they had tested 1% angus and 99% non angus, they could still say made with 100% angus.

That still being said, I like my calves black.

Hardees doesn't use CAB. They use "Angus" beef, not Certified Angus Beef. CAB is not guaranteed 100% Angus; not all "Angus" beef is Certified Angus Beef.

 

[bgm]

Frankie:

Hardees doesn't use CAB. They use "Angus" beef, not Certified Angus Beef. CAB is not guaranteed 100% Angus; not all "Angus" beef is Certified Angus Beef.

I'm not trying to get into this argument in any way, just looking at facts.

If Hardees doesn't use CAB and just uses angus beef, is it AngusSource or how do they verify the origin?

Thanks

 

[Scotty]

Frankie:

Hardees doesn't use CAB. They use "Angus" beef, not Certified Angus Beef. CAB is not guaranteed 100% Angus; not all "Angus" beef is Certified Angus Beef.

I'm not trying to get into this argument in any way, just looking at facts.

If Hardees doesn't use CAB and just uses angus beef, is it AngusSource or how do they verify the origin?

Thanks

To get Angus source tags you must be the owner of registered Angus bulls, and them be in your name with AAA. They get a tag that givesthe state and all other information about the origin of the animal.

 

[Scotty]

So I do not mistype somethign and get called down.
http://www.angussource.com/

 

[bufordall]

Why do we all jump on angus. There is no more 100% angus in the US anymore. I and everyone else here remembers when my dog was bigger than an angus bull, and wow the next show season they had 6.5 frame angus show cattle. We all know what happend and we all know that you cannot even test a so called purebred angus and it test as 100% angus beef. We have all at one time or another bred angus into our herds or there wouldn't be black everything out there. Angus had a good PR guy several years ago and he beat us to the punch. My god just live with it. Produce quality cattle and go on with your life.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie:

Hardees doesn't use CAB. They use "Angus" beef, not Certified Angus Beef. CAB is not guaranteed 100% Angus; not all "Angus" beef is Certified Angus Beef.

I'm not trying to get into this argument in any way, just looking at facts.

If Hardees doesn't use CAB and just uses angus beef, is it AngusSource or how do they verify the origin?

Thanks

According to the manager of my local Hardees (Carls Jr now), they depend on their supplier to provide them with the "Angus" beef in their 'burgers. He didn't know what made up "Angus" beef. This was when they first started selling it. (But it's a very good 'burger.) I doubt it's AngusSource beef. I believe they're using as much of that as they can for markets requiring source verified beef and the CAB Natural market. But call them up and ask.

Here's a link to the USDA certified beef brands site. One of our local supermarkets sells "Preferred Angus Beef", but it's not on this USDA list. Apparently it's not a USDA certified brand, just a store brand. When I asked the meat manager about it, she didn't know what qualified a cut of meat to be "Preferred Angus Beef".

You'd have to read the USDA requirements of each brand of beef to find out if it is required by the USDA to have a specific amount of Angus in it to carry the "Angus" name.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm

 

[alabama]

I have tried to get an answer from Hardees's several times to find out just which USDA guidelines they follow to declare the thick burger Angus Beef. So far, I have not gotten a response. This is just the sort of thing that has bothered me all along with the free use of the Angus name. Now CAB has a good thing and they have devised a way to insure quality beef. But, when just anyone, with out a published set of standards can declare their beef as Angus then we are in for trouble. This trouble comes in the form of people selling an inferior produce and call it Angus. This will bring down the Angus name and hurt us in the end. I would like to see the American Angus Association look at this. The answer may be to make the Angus name a trademark of the Angus Association and there by policing the use of the name.

 

[Frankie]

I have tried to get an answer from Hardees's several times to find out just which USDA guidelines they follow to declare the thick burger Angus Beef. So far, I have not gotten a response. This is just the sort of thing that has bothered me all along with the free use of the Angus name. Now CAB has a good thing and they have devised a way to insure quality beef. But, when just anyone, with out a published set of standards can declare their beef as Angus then we are in for trouble. This trouble comes in the form of people selling an inferior produce and call it Angus. This will bring down the Angus name and hurt us in the end. I would like to see the American Angus Association look at this. The answer may be to make the Angus name a trademark of the Angus Association and there by policing the use of the name.

They have looked at it. They can't trademark the word "Angus". The Hereford breed can't trademark the word "Hereford".

Look at the USDA certified site and see how many brands have the word "Angus" in their name.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm

All the Assn can do is promote CAB and try to stop people from selling fake CAB. They're doing a good job and I'm not very worried about other "Angus" brands hurting CAB sales. People seem to equate quality beef to Angus beef. We've all had a bad steak; we still eat steak. We just need to convince consumers they can cut out those bad steaks by eating a CAB steak.