Off Farm Income

[jedstivers]

As a rule of thumb I figure $100 margin a year on cow calf on rented or payed for land, and $100 margin on stockers on 100 day deal right now. Cow margins spoiled everyone the last few years though. Pretty easy math to determine what kind of lifestyle you will live.

What do you mean by margin? Net profit? If so is that after all expenses or just the cattle themselves?
Not calling you out or criticizing at all, just wanting to be in the same page.

 

[NECowboy]

Around here even with full time ranchers the wife usually works in town. They do it to make ends meet and for the wife to be able to drive a fancy vehicle. Chalk it up to expensive inputs, low cattle prices and margins, expensive land and rent, the high cost of living these days (food prices probably way higher vs inflation these days, teenage girls just gotta have those 100 dollar buckle jeans), and higher expectations of keeping up with the joneses these days and buying kid a nice used pickup ($$$) when he turns 16 and going to every sporting event even if it is 3 hours away, and you need the off farm income. There are some people that only ranch part time but those are usually smaller operations. Then a lot of people here raise both crops and cattle and usually it works out ok (the bigger you are and less debt you have of course the easier) but years like this just make you scratch your head as both crop and cattle prices are terrible!

This probably is the biggest reason it's so hard to make it. And now the boys are wearing buckle jeans too. And 100 dollar t shirts. A good truck for me was a worth a thousand dollars. Now everybody is buying their boys 15000 dollar trucks. Another thing is food prices didn't hurt us all that much since we grew gardens to eat out of. Most folks don't have them nowdays and the ones that do just do it as a hobby. They probably don't even break even on them if they put pencil to paper.

Ur exactly right Craig girls and boys both on all this stuff. We love growing a big garden in summer and canning it saves us a lot of money and is much tastier than the stuff you get in the supermarket!

 

[RanchMan90]

Yes sir profit. That's figuring $100 land cost, $250 payment/depreciation on her, $150 in feed and medical, while selling a $500-600 calf. Everyone's numbers will be different due to variables, but numbers are about all I think about.

 

[jedstivers]

Yes sir profit. That's figuring $100 land cost, $250 payment/depreciation on her, $150 in feed and medical, while selling a $500-600 calf. Everyone's numbers will be different due to variables, but numbers are about all I think about.

I think if true numbers are used for a lot of people they won't be at 100. It's a differed world from little rock east as from little rock west as far as cattle are concerned.
Also this is where economics of scale come into play. Once you get into the 100's vs just some it gets cheaper to run them.
Examples.
Each bull maxed out on number of head to service.
Hay equipment making hay for lots of cattle vs making 200 bales.
Pickups feeding enough cattle that it takes almost all day every day vs. a hour or two.
Working facilitie cost spread over lots and lots vs. just a few.
And that's not all, just a few.

On stockers I try for 100 and make it sometimes but count on 50. But my little stocker operation is a hobby and not my income. They row crops are the income and the stockers compliment it.
I'm just trying for 200 or so a winter, don't have time for year round stockers.
I could get to 500 or more easy in the winter but I don't want to over do it. As I get more permeant fences up I'll increase my stockers too.
In the past I've run 500 a year but they were someone else's calves and came ready (supposedly) to go.
Now I'm starting sale barn calves and that is a limiting factor too.

 

[Bigfoot]

Not tooting my horn on production cost, but it would be hard to put less in a cow, than I do. Probably 30% of my hay is given to me to just it off the field. I'll buy another ⅓ for $60-70 a ton. The rest is cut here. My equipment was bought with use in mind, not looks. I built my facilities, so material cost no labor. I'm stocked as heavy as I can be without moving cattle around every single day. I'm not servicing a debt. I also won't make a dime this year. I put myself to sleep every night thinking about cutting back. Just keep 35-40 cows, and bring hay in.

 

[boondocks]

Around here even with full time ranchers the wife usually works in town. They do it to make ends meet and for the wife to be able to drive a fancy vehicle. Chalk it up to expensive inputs, low cattle prices and margins, expensive land and rent, the high cost of living these days (food prices probably way higher vs inflation these days, teenage girls just gotta have those 100 dollar buckle jeans), and higher expectations of keeping up with the joneses these days and buying kid a nice used pickup ($$$) when he turns 16 and going to every sporting event even if it is 3 hours away, and you need the off farm income. There are some people that only ranch part time but those are usually smaller operations. Then a lot of people here raise both crops and cattle and usually it works out ok (the bigger you are and less debt you have of course the easier) but years like this just make you scratch your head as both crop and cattle prices are terrible!

Behind every successful rancher there's a wife with a job in town.. :hide:

Sometimes the rancher is a wife. And sometimes she also has a job in town. ;-)
And sometimes she is working her a___ off not for fancy vehicles, but for trucks and equipment and hay and (all of the things you note up top---kids, cows, ridiculous property taxes, etc). Oh and don't forget the main reason most families need at least one person with an off-farm job: health insurance.
:tiphat:

 

[Clodhopper]

Around here even with full time ranchers the wife usually works in town. They do it to make ends meet and for the wife to be able to drive a fancy vehicle. Chalk it up to expensive inputs, low cattle prices and margins, expensive land and rent, the high cost of living these days (food prices probably way higher vs inflation these days, teenage girls just gotta have those 100 dollar buckle jeans), and higher expectations of keeping up with the joneses these days and buying kid a nice used pickup ($$$) when he turns 16 and going to every sporting event even if it is 3 hours away, and you need the off farm income. There are some people that only ranch part time but those are usually smaller operations. Then a lot of people here raise both crops and cattle and usually it works out ok (the bigger you are and less debt you have of course the easier) but years like this just make you scratch your head as both crop and cattle prices are terrible!

Behind every successful rancher there's a wife with a job in town.. :hide:

Sometimes the rancher is a wife. And sometimes she also has a job in town. ;-)
And sometimes she is working her a___ off not for fancy vehicles, but for trucks and equipment and hay and (all of the things you note up top---kids, cows, ridiculous property taxes, etc). Oh and don't forget the main reason most families need at least one person with an off-farm job: health insurance.
:tiphat:

The cost of the Blue Cross Blue Shield policy on my daughters and myself is set to more than double in 2017. I'll leave it at that.

 

[hurleyjd]

Behind every successful rancher there's a wife with a job in town.. :hide:

Sometimes the rancher is a wife. And sometimes she also has a job in town. ;-)
And sometimes she is working her a___ off not for fancy vehicles, but for trucks and equipment and hay and (all of the things you note up top---kids, cows, ridiculous property taxes, etc). Oh and don't forget the main reason most families need at least one person with an off-farm job: health insurance.
:tiphat:

The cost of the Blue Cross Blue Shield policy on my daughters and myself is set to more than double in 2017. I'll leave it at that.

Double digit increases may be as high as 38 percent not really decided yet. Reason more people with health care insurance and using it.
The federal health law requires insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of premiums on medical claims and other health-related expenses, limiting the amount of money that can go toward salaries or other non-medical expenses.

 

[Jogeephus]

Many of these fine citizens are the experts called in to advise on Obamacare. Looks like Obamacare its working quite well for them.

 

[hurleyjd]

Many of these fine citizens are the experts called in to advise on Obamacare. Looks like Obamacare its working quite well for them.

You have pointed to a problem that is in all public traded companies. Also folks think that labor unions are the problem but look at the top CEOS also and all personnel at the executive level. The board of directors are on each others boards and scratch each others back. Also if the CEO with $48,000 a day was taxed at 50% he would still have $24,000 a day and that should be enough for any one to live on. Just think how much larger a ranch you could buy and run a cow herd. And just to think that when I was in the work force making $200 a day I thought I had cut a fat hog. And that was 14 years ago.

 

[Bigfoot]

Many of these fine citizens are the experts called in to advise on Obamacare. Looks like Obamacare its working quite well for them.

That's some eye opening stuff right there.

 

[Jogeephus]

You have pointed to a problem that is in all public traded companies. Also folks think that labor unions are the problem but look at the top CEOS also and all personnel at the executive level. The board of directors are on each others boards and scratch each others back. Also if the CEO with $48,000 a day was taxed at 50% he would still have $24,000 a day and that should be enough for any one to live on. Just think how much larger a ranch you could buy and run a cow herd. And just to think that when I was in the work force making $200 a day I thought I had cut a fat hog. And that was 14 years ago.

I agree but I think the problem is much larger than that. The problem is the government and when we allow government to allow protected territories and monopolies. This, I think, is the root of the problem. The government's job is to protect us and not to run or control the economy through these type things or regulations. Silly regulations can in fact allow for monopolies and destroy free enterprise. Government's should not be able to control who wins and loses but should only play the role in insuring that everyone has an equal chance and equal opportunity. Sadly, this is not the case.

 

[JMJ Farms]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

 

[True Grit Farms]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

And where's the problem in health care? I can't see eye to eye with folks like that. And I bet they vote different than me also.

 

[RanchMan90]

With the rising cost of health insurance, Oklahoma being the highest at 76%. Do you think it will reach a point of resistance that people are reluctant to pay? Im young and just pay the penalty at the end of the year and pay out of pocket for dental maintenance.

 

[JMJ Farms]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

And where's the problem in health care? I can't see eye to eye with folks like that. And I bet they vote different than me also.

I will even venture to say that we both probably pay more taxes than he does :hide:

With the rising cost of health insurance, Oklahoma being the highest at 76%. Do you think it will reach a point of resistance that people are reluctant to pay? Im young and just pay the penalty at the end of the year and pay out of pocket for dental maintenance.

That makes two of us. It's a ripoff and it doesn't even pay worth a crap when you need it.

 

[js1234]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

With the rising cost of health insurance, Oklahoma being the highest at 76%. Do you think it will reach a point of resistance that people are reluctant to pay? Im young and just pay the penalty at the end of the year and pay out of pocket for dental maintenance.

That makes two of us. It's a ripoff and it doesn't even pay worth a crap when you need it.

I agree. Our company pays for the health/vision/dental insurance for our employees and splits the cost of their dependants with them.
My wife and I actually opt out of our own companies group plan on the dental component as we don't see the value in it. We just have the health component for ourselves.

 

[boondocks]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

And where's the problem in health care? I can't see eye to eye with folks like that. And I bet they vote different than me also.

Hemsley (the fattest of the fat cats) donates R.
http://archive.fortune.com/galleries/20 ... une/5.html
So does Cordani. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=10
And Neidorff. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=16
Ditto Bertolini. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=16 (although he has some minor D donations as well).
Broussard mostly R. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=14
One guy, Swedish, http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... le=06leans D but has given very little.

 

[True Grit Farms]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

And where's the problem in health care? I can't see eye to eye with folks like that. And I bet they vote different than me also.

Hemsley (the fattest of the fat cats) donates R.
http://archive.fortune.com/galleries/20 ... une/5.html
So does Cordani. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=10
And Neidorff. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=16
Ditto Bertolini. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=16 (although he has some minor D donations as well).
Broussard mostly R. http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... p?cycle=14
One guy, Swedish, http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/ ... le=06leans D but has given very little.

I looked at the recent donations from all of the above and don't see a political trend myself. They'll all do anything for a dollar and have no political back bone or care in the world besides themselves.
At least Soros, Eychaner liberal Democrats, and Koch, Mercer on the conservative Republican side stick to their beliefs and stand for what they believe in. I don't agree with all of them but I respect the fight in them all.

 

[tom4018]

$254k per day? That's absurd. I can't even fathom that.

And where's the problem in health care? I can't see eye to eye with folks like that. And I bet they vote different than me also.

I am sorry but I can't see how any one person is worth that in that type of position. I understand that some people that have created a business make good money but these guys did not create anything. Just hard to believe that someone is making 4-5 times what most Americans make in one year in one day. :help: