OCC Prototype

[Frankie]

I think most of us understand your "points", DOC. (Perhaps a hat would help?) We just don't agree with you and this post shows why. A 610 lb carcass is very near being discounted in a commercial packing plant. KMacGinley sells his animals as meat and makes good money doing it. But don't confuse that market with the commercial cattle market that most of us deal with.

 

[KMacGinley]

I didn't tell you about the other group that were fed conventionally and were gone at 14 months with 7-8 wgt carcass, that I almost lost money on. Same breeding, just a gate cut. You pour feed to them, they grow, you grass feed them they grow. Try that with some 878s and tell me how many months it takes them to be acceptable without ever being fed any concentrate.

 

[Oldtimer]

RD-Sam-- this thread has a picture of Prototypes sire (OCC Kanga) and some pictures of Kanga calves:

http://5barx.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f ... nga#p35286

Also on that site- if you do a search for Kanga or for Prototype- there is quite a bit of info on the bulls and pictures....
The picture of Prototype on there makes him look like a Tank....
http://cattlegrower.com/guwara/albums/435/6574

 

[RD-Sam]

RD-Sam-- this thread has a picture of Prototypes sire (OCC Kanga) and some pictures of Kanga calves:

http://5barx.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f ... nga#p35286

Also on that site- if you do a search for Kanga or for Prototype- there is quite a bit of info on the bulls and pictures....
The picture of Prototype on there makes him look like a Tank....
http://cattlegrower.com/guwara/albums/435/6574

I like the looks of Kanga and Prototype both, it would be nice if Prototype produces similar offspring, we'll see. ;-)

 

[Frankie]

I didn't tell you about the other group that were fed conventionally and were gone at 14 months with 7-8 wgt carcass, that I almost lost money on. Same breeding, just a gate cut. You pour feed to them, they grow, you grass feed them they grow. Try that with some 878s and tell me how many months it takes them to be acceptable without ever being fed any concentrate.

And you make my point: The genetics you're using seem to work for you in your grass fed, direct marketing program. But from your own experience, they apparently didn't work in a conventional feeding program.

878 is what he is. Nobody claims he's a magic bull that will finish on grass at 18 months. "Acceptable"? Did I miss the reference to quality grade on your steers? I wouldn't be surprised if 878 calves could finish on grass. I do know, from experience, that his sons do very well in a conventional feedlot situation (as did 036's sons) and that's where most of us are selling our calves.

And we haven't even discussed how many more cows you could be running instead of grass finishing your calves.

 

[RD-Sam]

I didn't tell you about the other group that were fed conventionally and were gone at 14 months with 7-8 wgt carcass, that I almost lost money on. Same breeding, just a gate cut. You pour feed to them, they grow, you grass feed them they grow. Try that with some 878s and tell me how many months it takes them to be acceptable without ever being fed any concentrate.

And you make my point: The genetics you're using seem to work for you in your grass fed, direct marketing program. But from your own experience, they apparently didn't work in a conventional feeding program.

878 is what he is. Nobody claims he's a magic bull that will finish on grass at 18 months. "Acceptable"? Did I miss the reference to quality grade on your steers? I wouldn't be surprised if 878 calves could finish on grass. I do know, from experience, that his sons do very well in a conventional feedlot situation (as did 036's sons) and that's where most of us are selling our calves.

And we haven't even discussed how many more cows you could be running instead of grass finishing your calves.

We also didn't discuss how much more it would cost to keep those steers at another location, my costs are way way higher than that! :lol2: :help:

 

[KMacGinley]

I didn't tell you about the other group that were fed conventionally and were gone at 14 months with 7-8 wgt carcass, that I almost lost money on. Same breeding, just a gate cut. You pour feed to them, they grow, you grass feed them they grow. Try that with some 878s and tell me how many months it takes them to be acceptable without ever being fed any concentrate.

And you make my point: The genetics you're using seem to work for you in your grass fed, direct marketing program. But from your own experience, they apparently didn't work in a conventional feeding program.

878 is what he is. Nobody claims he's a magic bull that will finish on grass at 18 months. "Acceptable"? Did I miss the reference to quality grade on your steers? I wouldn't be surprised if 878 calves could finish on grass. I do know, from experience, that his sons do very well in a conventional feedlot situation (as did 036's sons) and that's where most of us are selling our calves.

And we haven't even discussed how many more cows you could be running instead of grass finishing your calves.

No, Frankie the calves grew very well, as good as my old conventional breeding if not better, the price of feed is what killed them. There weren't a lot of people feeding grain making much doing it that way last year. My grass finishing was a pretty good use of that resource I would say, since I had extra grass and orders for the 10 steers, otherwise I would have had to lay out money to buy cows to use it and I already owned the calves. That part of it is probably going to grow, I will continue to feed the majority of the calves as Natural grainfed beef though, and corn is much more reasonable this year. The heifer mates to those steers will be using some of that grass this year, so I guess I am adding more cows.
Fuel and feed are probably not going to get much cheaper in the future and I am not being critical of 878 and his ilk for what they were designed to do, I am saying that at least for me, I like the option of cattle that potentially can go both ways.

Sam: are you in California? I would guess that you are absolutely correct on your cost for grazing, so you are probably right about that for you, unless you can hustle up some land that is being underutilized and access it for a song for managing it, like for an absentee owner, who wants to see cattle out on their land. Around here a lot of pastures are open has cows have been sold off. You might have to work on some fences, but you can get them reasonable.

 

[EAT BEEF]

It's awful when Kmac can almost lose money on calves in the feedlot,when the feedlots have been looseing money for sometime.My puds just keep topping the sale in OKC and Ada,but so do the neighbors Express cattle.They feed more and the calves are a little bigger,but I think my deal makes more money.

 

[KMacGinley]

What saved me was feeding wet gluten as a protein source, that kept the price down enough that I had not quite double the $190 in those calves with everything. I am glad I didn't have to buy them.

 

[RD-Sam]

I didn't tell you about the other group that were fed conventionally and were gone at 14 months with 7-8 wgt carcass, that I almost lost money on. Same breeding, just a gate cut. You pour feed to them, they grow, you grass feed them they grow. Try that with some 878s and tell me how many months it takes them to be acceptable without ever being fed any concentrate.

And you make my point: The genetics you're using seem to work for you in your grass fed, direct marketing program. But from your own experience, they apparently didn't work in a conventional feeding program.

878 is what he is. Nobody claims he's a magic bull that will finish on grass at 18 months. "Acceptable"? Did I miss the reference to quality grade on your steers? I wouldn't be surprised if 878 calves could finish on grass. I do know, from experience, that his sons do very well in a conventional feedlot situation (as did 036's sons) and that's where most of us are selling our calves.

And we haven't even discussed how many more cows you could be running instead of grass finishing your calves.

No, Frankie the calves grew very well, as good as my old conventional breeding if not better, the price of feed is what killed them. There weren't a lot of people feeding grain making much doing it that way last year. My grass finishing was a pretty good use of that resource I would say, since I had extra grass and orders for the 10 steers, otherwise I would have had to lay out money to buy cows to use it and I already owned the calves. That part of it is probably going to grow, I will continue to feed the majority of the calves as Natural grainfed beef though, and corn is much more reasonable this year. The heifer mates to those steers will be using some of that grass this year, so I guess I am adding more cows.
Fuel and feed are probably not going to get much cheaper in the future and I am not being critical of 878 and his ilk for what they were designed to do, I am saying that at least for me, I like the option of cattle that potentially can go both ways.

Sam: are you in California? I would guess that you are absolutely correct on your cost for grazing, so you are probably right about that for you, unless you can hustle up some land that is being underutilized and access it for a song for managing it, like for an absentee owner, who wants to see cattle out on their land. Around here a lot of pastures are open has cows have been sold off. You might have to work on some fences, but you can get them reasonable.

Nope, Georgia/Alabama. If I would have kept those steers the extra 4 months it would have cost me $120 per steer for them to graze. There isn't much around here to rent, I have looked all over and can't find anything. I have property I am clearing and fencing, but it's slow going with all the rain we have had this year. It's been pouring since last night again, everything is just a muddy mess and has been like that all year.

I see your point about grazing, but I tend to side with Frankie, if resources are limited you want those steers finished and out of there as quick as possible, that means lines that grow fast and finish well on feed, and have acceptable carcass weights. And then there is the issue of grading on grass fed to consider.

 

[KMacGinley]

There is no grading involved with my deal. I looked over the carcasses in our little hometown butcher shop and I had a couple that were low choice, the rest were all select. With the earlier grainfed calves they all hit choice easy. The tenderness is what is really important, we have built a good freezer beef business and with my contacts with the environment type people, this grass fed deal is really starting to take off. Next year I will charge a lot more for it. From what I see on the internet, people are getting $2.50 -$3.00 per lb for what I am selling for $1.75 this year. But I wanted to make sure that I could have a great product before I got too greedy. Anyway, I like the Ohlde cattle, I think that they are pretty good for what I am doing and I enjoy their phenotype.

To actually comment on the thread... The prototype calves are a little coarser, but very thick good doing cattle. The Missing Links are very thick and put together a little more stylishly. The Paxtons are impressive all around cattle as well, just a little less thick, with a touch more frame maybe, good performing cattle though. At least that was my impression of the bulls and heifers I saw out there.

 

[RD-Sam]

There is no grading involved with my deal. I looked over the carcasses in our little hometown butcher shop and I had a couple that were low choice, the rest were all select. With the earlier grainfed calves they all hit choice easy. The tenderness is what is really important, we have built a good freezer beef business and with my contacts with the environment type people, this grass fed deal is really starting to take off. Next year I will charge a lot more for it. From what I see on the internet, people are getting $2.50 -$3.00 per lb for what I am selling for $1.75 this year. But I wanted to make sure that I could have a great product before I got too greedy. Anyway, I like the Ohlde cattle, I think that they are pretty good for what I am doing and I enjoy their phenotype.

To actually comment on the thread... The prototype calves are a little coarser, but very thick good doing cattle. The Missing Links are very thick and put together a little more stylishly. The Paxtons are impressive all around cattle as well, just a little less thick, with a touch more frame maybe, good performing cattle though. At least that was my impression of the bulls and heifers I saw out there.

I paid a little more for the steer I bought, paid $1 per pound live weight and butcher charge of $408, he weighed 1245, and hanging weight was 668 if I remember right. He was at least Choice, if not upper Choice. MIF son.

I'm going to give Prototype a try and see how the calves compare to the other sires I have used. I'm looking for a little better muscle and an efficient cow maker.

 

[Jake]

I kind of got in on this late because of some issues with the board before the melt down. We have used many of the OCC bulls and since I worked for Tim for a couple summers I have a lot of experience with the bulls.

OCC Prototype- extra thickness and muscle definate "changer" bull. very attractive females, bulls are tanks. His mother is a nice sized well uddered cow so I would expect the same of his daughters.

OCC Paxton- good combination bull of what Ohlde has to offer. More style than the Prototypes with more growth. The bull Tim is using as an outcross on everything and doing so with good results.

OCC Missing Link- Style and slick made cattle, not for use on all cows definately one to use on thicker made cows.

 

[KMacGinley]

There is no grading involved with my deal. I looked over the carcasses in our little hometown butcher shop and I had a couple that were low choice, the rest were all select. With the earlier grainfed calves they all hit choice easy. The tenderness is what is really important, we have built a good freezer beef business and with my contacts with the environment type people, this grass fed deal is really starting to take off. Next year I will charge a lot more for it. From what I see on the internet, people are getting $2.50 -$3.00 per lb for what I am selling for $1.75 this year. But I wanted to make sure that I could have a great product before I got too greedy. Anyway, I like the Ohlde cattle, I think that they are pretty good for what I am doing and I enjoy their phenotype.

To actually comment on the thread... The prototype calves are a little coarser, but very thick good doing cattle. The Missing Links are very thick and put together a little more stylishly. The Paxtons are impressive all around cattle as well, just a little less thick, with a touch more frame maybe, good performing cattle though. At least that was my impression of the bulls and heifers I saw out there.

I paid a little more for the steer I bought, paid $1 per pound live weight and butcher charge of $408, he weighed 1245, and hanging weight was 668 if I remember right. He was at least Choice, if not upper Choice. MIF son.

I'm going to give Prototype a try and see how the calves compare to the other sires I have used. I'm looking for a little better muscle and an efficient cow maker.

Sam: you might also think about Missing Link. Very correct beautiful cattle and good performance.

 

[RD-Sam]

Mac, I'm just going to try one of the OCC bulls for now, Prototype had a pedigree loaded with OCC sires that were suppose to be very good, so he gets the honors.

Semen purchases for 2010 are done, along with Prototype, I added Sinclair Extravagant 6X7 and B/R New Frontier 095 to the tank.

 

[KMacGinley]

I think you will like the look and performance of the calves from Prototype, I will look forward to seeing some pics in the future.

 

[Post Oak]

Anybody else out there running OCC Paxton or Prototype heifers or cows?

 

[Lucky_P]

PO,
While I still toy with the idea of using him, sparingly... I think Prototype's stock tanked when he was shown to be a carrier of the double-muscling gene.

 

[WalnutCrest]

PO,
While I still toy with the idea of using him, sparingly... I think Prototype's stock tanked when he was shown to be a carrier of the double-muscling gene.

Which mutation does he have? There are several that have been researched rather extensively.

 

[Jake]

PO,
While I still toy with the idea of using him, sparingly... I think Prototype's stock tanked when he was shown to be a carrier of the double-muscling gene.

Which mutation does he have? There are several that have been researched rather extensively.

Double Muscle carrier