Nut on nuts off

[Dave]

I understand the principle, but you might walk right past the best calf in the county.
What about the breeder that keeps 100% - but doesn't tell you?
Seems you have a honest answer bias.

That may be but I would still walk. I know of a few who keep 100% and don't say anything. If I go to their sale it is for the free lunch and to BS with friends not to buy bulls.
And I shop more than just my county.

 

[Rydero]

That may be but I would still walk. I know of a few who keep 100% and don't say anything. If I go to their sale it is for the free lunch and to BS with friends not to buy bulls.
And I shop more than just my county.

I thought it was country lmao. I wouldn't be worried about not getting the best calf in the county. Lots of places to get bulls .

 

[elkwc]

Many of the top breeders that taught me when I was young only kept 25-33% of their bulls and heifers. They said that was the only way to continually move a program forward. They castrated many calves that would of been the top bull calf in other herds. The same with heifer calves. I have a local PB breeder that way now. He keeps the very best and doesn't register the rest.
In most herds I visit and sales I attend there is a bottom end that should of been castrated in my opinion. As to BW I would rather see a breeder castrate every calf under 65 lbs than one over 100 lb. Last spring I found a bull with a BW above 100 lbs that brought around $8,500. It was evident many of us felt the same about BW. As long as a breeder is honest about the BW I can make the decision whether buy him or not. The comment that turns me off is "I have bulls in all price ranges." What that tells me is bulls that should be steers have been retained. All this does is put more low quality bulls in herds. When I hear that said I lose all interest in that breeders cattle.

 

[SPH]

It sounds like they might be some of those folks that believe just because and animal can be registered it should be. I don't care how much you spend on bulls and cows, there will always be some calves that are just meant to be feeders and not seedstock. It doesn't mean anything was done wrong with the breeding or that a calf is bad, sometimes that's just how a calf turns out. If I was a seedstock producer I would rather have a reputation for Quality and being particular with cattle I offered for sale. You're more likely to have satisfied, repeat customers by having strict culling practices.

Great post, share a lot of same thoughts. The first question anyone selling seedstock should ask is would you use the bull or heifer in your own herd if you had the capacity to do so or were buying them from someone else? If you can't answer that question honestly then why would you want to put your name and reputation on the line by selling them to someone else? Even some of the best bulls and heifers you do keep or sell sometimes don't always turn out as good as you thought they would but certainly some need to realize that just because an animal can be registered doesn't mean you should sell them as seedstock if they are poor performers or not made well phenotypically. I'm sure we all have kept some heifers and bulls in herd over the years that disappointed or also was glad you went with your gut instinct and held onto that 1 heifer that just missed the cut to send to the feedyard that turned into a good cow. You also have to be willing to back the cattle you sell as the last thing you want is a frustrated customer that tells all his buddies and neighbors bad things about you and not to buy from you because 1 bad sale can negate a bunch of the good sales you have made.

Case in point - a few years back we sold one of our top yearling bulls to a new customer less than an hour away from us. A couple months later he calls and says the bull about died on him, he had to pull him out of the pasture and the vet diagnosed him with walking pneumonia. Drove over there and took a look and the bull obviously had lost a lot of weight from when we dropped him off in good health and condition but the breeder said when the vet was out he was worried the bull wasn't going to pull through and would die on him. We suspected he maybe had also tried to overwork him as he turned him out with about twice as many cows as he should have for a yearling bull but the guy was adamant that we replace him because he had to go out and buy another bull to finish up breeding season. Despite that we think the bull probably was not properly managed after we delivered him we didn't want to risk our reputation so we agreed to replace him the next spring with another bull and took the bull back home to try and fatten up to slaughter. Well the bull hardly would gain anything for us despite trying to give him whatever he would eat. Had our vet check him out when we preg checked that fall and he suspected he probably had picked up some hardware so we just cut our losses and sent him off to the packer with some culls shortly after. Next spring delivered the replacement bull and the guy said he had a few calves on the ground by our bull and liked what he did get and asked if we had any more bulls left as he'd like to buy a 2nd bull to use too. So choosing to keep him satisfied despite the doubts we had about how he possibly took care of the 1st bull led to another sale which justified that we made the right decision even though we felt the situation was not because of anything we could have done to prevent it.

 

[Till-Hill]

We retain all heifers, unless an attitude problem or real small one. (We try to maintain an under 60 day calving season) The good ones sort themselves out and get to stay. The bad ones make hamburger.

For bulls out of 35ish calves born every year, AI/ET calves I'd say we cut 98% of them.

A cow only has 10 calves in her life and a bull has hundreds. He has to be awfully special for me to keep him for myself or to sell.

Doesn't matter if you have 2 or 2,000 cows, there's always the top half and the bottom half.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I used to sort the heifer pen three or four times, and would end retaining about 20% of heifers.

Have had better cows and bulls recently, so I retained about 33% of heifers. Sold a few bred heifers choice recently, and the buyer picked my favorites about half the time. Guess I was culling too hard.

Still have 75% of this years heifer calves, and will not sort them again until after they go to grass.

 

[gizmom]

We cull bulls at weaning then start developing the ones that meet the criteria to stay a bull. After that we still end up culling a few more prior to yearling due to growth feet or attitude. At yearling we have sorted through them pretty good but then they have to have the SC so once in awhile we will have to cull one at yearling. Bottom line not all bull calves should stay bulls. We were at a meeting one evening the speaker that night was a rep from a processing plant, one of the statements made is most purebred breeders need to sharpen their knives. That has stuck with me.

 

[anewcomer]

Steve, graze all of them till breeding time. Turn in bulls at breeding time. Wait 30 days. Pull bulls. Wait 30 days. Blood test for pregnancy. Ship opens as feeders. Keep breds. You got the best. Problem solved.

 

[Dave]

Steve, graze all of them till breeding time. Turn in bulls at breeding time. Wait 30 days. Pull bulls. Wait 30 days. Blood test for pregnancy. Ship opens as feeders. Keep breds. You got the best. Problem solved.

Dinks can breed in 30 days or less too. Being bred in 30 days means she will have a calf. It doesn't mean it will be a good calf.

 

[Ky hills]

Dinks can breed in 30 days or less too. Being bred in 30 days means she will have a calf. It doesn't mean it will be a good calf.

True, and them dinks are almost always fertile and prolific.

 

[Ky hills]

We don't have a set percentage of keep or culls with heifers. I try to take a lot of things into consideration when sorting through them. Disposition is a big part, doesn't matter how good they may turn out if they are crazy it ain't worth it. I do prefer to keep heifers from cows that calve early in the season, and that consistently raise good calves. Calves from first calf heifers from those aforementioned cows get strong consideration too. Calves from late calving cows, bad udders, etc, usually get culled out.

 

[kentuckyguy]

My first thoughts when considering keeping or buying a bull is his dams track record. If a bull is not out of a cow that has proven herself for longevity and fertility I just go ahead and band them at birth.

The next cut comes around weaning time when I get to judge the bull on looks, feet, and the big one for me docility.

I don't wanna keep or sell a bull to anyone that's not easy to deal with. I move my cattle from pasture to pasture across a road with a bucket of feed. If they won't cooperate they hit the trailer.