Nurse cow or not. Thoughts

[farmerjan]

Added, I have as good or better luck with straight dairy calves... than the 1/2 dairy beef ones... YOU CAN NOT feed them too much.... I raise alot of jersey bull calves up...
Not saying she did not start with a strike against her... but... getting them stopped up... then a pill in 12 -24 hours usually gets them to stop squirting, and then you can deal with anything else.

 

[Double R Ranch]

@farmerjan
I totally forgot about immodium. I just gave her one and ordered more. Thank you for that reminder! The cow version of pepto isn't doing a thing. Also gave her sustain boluses just now. Hopefully it doesn't counteract with what she's already had. We're at the point it will either hurt or help but I don't think she has long left at the rate she's going. She's very dehydrated inspire of having electrolytes from day one in her milk (milk safe electrolytes). A couple days ago we did the no milk for 24 hours and only electrolytes and she lost all her condition and has gone down hill faster since. A dairy friend gave us some powder they use for 3 feedings with no milk and it nearly always works on their calves. Didn't work unfortunately and she's gotten to the point where she's extremely dehydrated even with SQ fluids and electrolytes. I'm pretty sure we are dealing with either rota or corona in this case. Hard to gauge due to the pepto and electrolytes coming out the back end. If she's so dehydrated and lacking condition at this point would you try again the 24 hours of no milk and only electrolytes? She is sternal and ate a little from the bottle a few hours ago at feeding (tubed the rest) and does stand a bit so we aren't down flat yet but I hold my breath each check hoping I don't find her down. Seen it more times than I care to think about and they usually haven't survived.
Thanks for the advice. I'm trying everything I can to save this poor girl.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Added, I have as good or better luck with straight dairy calves... than the 1/2 dairy beef ones... YOU CAN NOT feed them too much.... I raise alot of jersey bull calves up...
Not saying she did not start with a strike against her... but... getting them stopped up... then a pill in 12 -24 hours usually gets them to stop squirting, and then you can deal with anything else.

Thank you. It does sound like the deck was stacked against her from the start but that's good to know. I have tried NOT to overfeed her. The dairy gives a whole bottle and she wouldn't eat it all from day one so I cut her back to 1/2 a bottle 3 times a day. She barely would finish that each feeding.

 

[farmerjan]

If she is still drinking... and she will take the milk better than the electrolytes... try that... No more than a qt at most... maybe just a pint... Immodium immediately, again in 4 hours.. if she gets a little stopped up, again in the morning... The pills used to be sized more or less for a 100 lb person, so that is really "stopping her up"... the milk will actually keep her from getting impacted, so better than electrolytes. I have never used the "milk compatible" electrolytes.
The sustain won't hurt and I would do the Corid if you have any. 1 cc straight down her throat... not diluted. Advise years ago from a vet... and do the corid every time you give a bottle... for 2 days... then once a day for 5 days.
At this point, it is almost kill her or cure her... I would not bother with the probiotics for a couple of feedings.. If you can get her stopped up for just a little while... then she has a half a chance... then do probiotics on the feeding you do NOT give an antibiotic...

 

[Double R Ranch]

This is super helpful. Thank you. Great tip on the corid straight. Been doing it the 5 day treatment method.
Will update soon I hope with better news. Thank you for taking the time to help!

 

[dorite007]

Calf update. I think we are loosing the battle of scours with this one. I knew better than getting a full dairy calf. They tend to be far less hardy and die pretty easily. I prefer the crossbreds as they are far more hearty. More of the story about this calf has come out and I think it was a loosing battle from the start we just didn't know it. Frustrated but this is part of it. Have some new stuff coming to try in the future but it won't be here in time.

scour halt for hogs will stop them i use it all the time when i need

 

[Dave]

Scours kill by dehydration. An IV can prevent that from happening. It amazing how fast that can turn a calf around.

 

[Double R Ranch]

She was getting far more hydrated after giving her a new powder last night but it was just too late. She passed away this morning after making dramatic improvements overnight.

 

[MurraysMutts]

She was getting far more hydrated after giving her a new powder last night but it was just too late. She passed away this morning after making dramatic improvements overnight.

Sorry to hear that.
My friend lost one as well. Perfect the evening before. Dead as a hammer next morning. Fully vaxed and all.
Almost 3 months old.

Sometimes they just die.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Sorry to hear that.
My friend lost one as well. Perfect the evening before. Dead as a hammer next morning. Fully vaxed and all.
Almost 3 months old.

Sometimes they just die.

As they say "If you have livestock, you'll have dead stock." Golly it sure stinks when the dead stock happens

 

[Double R Ranch]

We got a bull! Very happy although mom had a choking event on the birth sack in her cleaning frenzy. She has OCD when it comes to EVERYONE being clean. Starts about two weeks pre calving and lasts most of her lactation. Saw her spinning around in a panic, rushed out to see what was going on to see her trying to breathe. Reached into her mouth pulling it out. Once I got it all back up she was able to breathe and went right back to cleaning the calf. He'll be lucky to have hair left when she's done with him. More pictures and a weight coming this evening after he's processed and after milking.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Very lively jersey cross. He's got nursing figured out with a brief show and tell from me. He's bigger than I expected but she had him just fine.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Love it!
Look forward to updates and hope ya find some good babies for her!

 

[Double R Ranch]

56#'s Jersey x Aberdeen bull calf. Steered now. Gave him a "First Defense" bolus to try and prevent the dreaded scours. Hoping it will help. Shouldn't take long to know it's made a difference or not.
He's quite spunky and nursing well. Got a gallon of beautiful colostrum tonight to put away for a needy calf in the future. No luck with any extra calves.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Well we finally had to handle milk fever. Cow was down with an S to her neck and cold ears. Didn't finish her supper either. 3 bottles IV and she's up and eating already. Gave her a bolus and will follow up with one more in 24 hours. Calf went right to nursing when she got up. She was down for 2 hours when we found her down. Quite the scare but grateful she's pulling through it. Dairy cows sure are different from beef cows. Now to make some cupcakes for our friends who came to help save her.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Well we finally had to handle milk fever. Cow was down with an S to her neck and cold ears. Didn't finish her supper either. 3 bottles IV and she's up and eating already. Gave her a bolus and will follow up with one more in 24 hours. Calf went right to nursing when she got up. She was down for 2 hours when we found her down. Quite the scare but grateful she's pulling through it. Dairy cows sure are different from beef cows. Now to make some cupcakes for our friends who came to help save her.

Holy smokes. Just like that huh?
I'm glad you were successful in getting her going in a timely manner. Milk fever is calcium related right? I have heard the IV is the fastest way to get em up.
Hopefully she keeps a going!

I've been very fortunate, tho both my girls are crossbreds. And I do keep loose mineral out. Can't say as I've seen either one of em in the mineral any more than my other cows tho. The place I have them at now would be a dang nightmare if either one went down. I agree tho. Range cows and milk cows are a good bit different!

 

[Double R Ranch]

Holy smokes. Just like that huh?
I'm glad you were successful in getting her going in a timely manner. Milk fever is calcium related right? I have heard the IV is the fastest way to get em up.
Hopefully she keeps a going!

I've been very fortunate, tho both my girls are crossbreds. And I do keep loose mineral out. Can't say as I've seen either one of em in the mineral any more than my other cows tho. The place I have them at now would be a dang nightmare if either one went down. I agree tho. Range cows and milk cows are a good bit different!

I learned that some of the little things I noticed yesterday post calving were faint signs of it coming on. Definitely learned a lot in the last 15ish hours.
Yes it's calcium deficiency.
She is technically on the heavy side for a dairy cow after being on (dry) pasture. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the proper condition differences between dairy and beef. My brain says she's too thin. Reality is she's "heavy". She's a fairly heavy milker and I think that this was partially brought on because I didn't have her on alfalfa this time around because she's "heavy". She has free choice supplements/minerals but it doesn't do anything for the surge in calcium usage for lactation.
She will now get extended calcium boluses pre and post calving. Hopefully prevent future issues.
She's up and her calf has nursed a few times already since giving her the treatments. She's still off but acting more normal as the minutes tick on.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

This Holstein heifer that died - I wonder if she also had aspiration pneumonia from tube feeding. You have to be really careful they don't struggle and pull the tube partway out and it goes into their lungs. Also, tubing a calf that is down can do the same. Best to tube them standing with their body over a hay bale.

Calcium boluses at first sign of birth and every 12 hours for a total of four kept my 14 year old Jersey with a milk fever history from doing down and never getting up. CMPK tubes work also.

 

[farmerjan]

Milk fever is not just a calcium problem.... it is the BALANCE of calcium/potassium and the way the body pulls it upon partuition..... Dairy farms that calve out high producing cows do not feed alfalfa prior to calving... they feed a lower "quality" feed pre-birth... most have what they call a "pre-fresh" pen to try to keep the cow's system balanced.. part of it is to help to control some of the edema in the cow's underline and udder.
Jerseys are known for their having milk fever problems... and no amount/quality of feed will control those that are prone to it and it occurs more in cows as they get older... it is just one of those things.
Supplementing with calcium pre-fresh, and post-partuition can help to stave it off... but if the cow had been milking and then dried off for 60-90 days, then the hormones reactivate the milk production with the commencement of calving.... if she is a heavy milker, she will often have a greater possibility of having milk fever... it happens in holsteins also, but more often in jersey's and somewhat less often in guernsey's... I think that it may be in correlation to their butterfat and protein production although that is just my uneducated suspicion...

ANY cow can get milk fever... but it is uncommon in beef cattle... again, their body does not suddenly kick in to start producing "tons" of milk right off the bat... like a dairy cow does..

I keep CMPK tubes on hand to give to any "down cow" at freshening... and there are times that IV is the only way to save a cow that has "milk fever" ...

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

For people that don't know about giving CMPK tubes to cows when you buy them you also need the special 'calking gun'. Regular construction calking guns don't work.