farmerjan
Well-known member
A broomstick handle works just as well if you have a little muscle to push it.... have never had the special caulking gun for it...I am sure the gun would be a little easier....
Nurse cow or not. Thoughts
- Thread starter Double R Ranch
- Start date
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OP
She went back down again last night with milk fever post milking. Thankfully I was watching for any signs of relapse and caught it pretty fast. She was not in as bad of shape and put up more of a fight which was welcomed. She was treated and up immediately and today is back to her normal self 100% by this evening. Think I'll be able to handle it in the future. If not I'm glad to know I have help available because vets aren't really an option anymore in an emergency around here.
Good to know about the alfalfa. Glad that wasn't a cause. She is a heavy producer and a lot of cream. Our dairy friends even confirmed that she's considered a high producer. Not what we were hoping for when we got her but we make use of nearly all of it. Previous lactations she was lean and we had no pasture due to fire and lack of recovery from the fire so she was on mostly alfalfa. I assumed not having it was playing a part in this. That's good to know. From now on she will be getting the extended protocol of bovikalc oral calcium boluses. Really hoping this isn't a genetic trait since we have 2 of her daughters pregnant and going to be going into production. The plan was only 1 but jerseys are like potato chips apparently and you just can't have only 1.
Then the plan was 2 alternating each other and the second half of their lactation just being nurse cows. Then the 3rd heifer happened and who knows the plan from there. That's interesting on the dry period. 60 days is what we shoot for with her to give her a chance to recoup some weight. That does make sense on the hormones reactivating. She has very high butterfat and protein according to testing. She yields a lot of butter per gallon and a lot of cheese curds too.
I'll look into cmpk tubes. Pretty sure that's what part of the IV bottles were was cmpk. I had the bovikalc oral calcium boluses on hand and she's had 2 which did seem to make a difference.
Thanks for the info!
farmerjan
Well-known member
I do not worry about their body condition that much ... I have never had a dairy cow that I considered too fat prior to calving. Actually I like them to have more body fat as then they can "milk the fat off their back" in the early 60-120 days and still stay in breeding condition... So I don't think that was much of a contributing factor. Jersey's seem to just be more prone to milk fever... and some moreso than others.
I had a cow that that you treated pre-calving then post calving usually twice after calving...... every single lactation... And yeah, you get to know the signs and treat quicker.. And yes, fighting you more is a good sign that it is not as bad as it can be.
Most all farmers treat a cow post calving for milk fever...
The correlation between high butterfat and more likely to have milk fever, is strictly my personal thoughts. No proof.
The boluses are easier to give them than the tubes... you have to shove them down their throat, and it is easier to do the boluses than the tubes. The tubes are a paste and will absorb a little quicker than the bolus breaking down.
IV in the milk vein if she is down is quickest... I don't do necks, not good at getting the vein.. but the milk vein is easy on most. You have to restrain their leg... halter, and leg rope to halter to hold her head down around towards leg... like she is "laying sleeping"... but gives you access to the milk vein... and just do not run it in too fast.. Your dairy friends can give you more pointers on that . Haven't had to treat any lately... and this jersey I got at auction last year... it will be her first time calving here so we will see. She did not seem to be a very heavy producer so hopefully will not be a problem.
The comment on the 60-90 day dry period was actually directed more towards @TexasJerseyMilker because her old cow had been dry for years after the mastitis she had gotten and that they had not bred her or had her in production for several years. So a different scenario on a normal cow that has been dry for the 60+ normal dry period. Giving her the boluses pre and post calving were probably enough to prevent any "milk fever" since she had not been in production for several years and so it did not "start back up" her system like if she had been milking, then dry, then back into production.
There is no rhyme or reason to who shows signs of milk fever. But my thoughts on the butterfat correlation is because one of my dairy farmers that had registered holsteins and reg brown swiss, would have some milk fever in his holsteins and they had a much higher than average butterfat than holsteins at other farms ... his often ran in the 4.0 to 4.5 range.. Also being high producers.... and then the swiss did not seem to get milk fever often, yet they had over 4% fat most of the time... Go figure......but the swiss did not come into their milk quite as fast.... so it did not "tax" their system so fast right in the beginning.
It seems that jerseys, and holsteins mammary systems "jump right in" with producing alot of milk right off the bat... like a switch turns on and it goes into overdrive.... and the higher butterfat seems to be more at the trigger for milk fever.
AGAIN, just my personal observations over the years of being a milk tester on farms, listening to farmers, and a few of my own jerseys compared to all the other breeds of dairy animals I have had for milking and nurse cows.
Would be an interesting thing to be studied... maybe by some student at an ag college....
I had a cow that that you treated pre-calving then post calving usually twice after calving...... every single lactation... And yeah, you get to know the signs and treat quicker.. And yes, fighting you more is a good sign that it is not as bad as it can be.
Most all farmers treat a cow post calving for milk fever...
The correlation between high butterfat and more likely to have milk fever, is strictly my personal thoughts. No proof.
The boluses are easier to give them than the tubes... you have to shove them down their throat, and it is easier to do the boluses than the tubes. The tubes are a paste and will absorb a little quicker than the bolus breaking down.
IV in the milk vein if she is down is quickest... I don't do necks, not good at getting the vein.. but the milk vein is easy on most. You have to restrain their leg... halter, and leg rope to halter to hold her head down around towards leg... like she is "laying sleeping"... but gives you access to the milk vein... and just do not run it in too fast.. Your dairy friends can give you more pointers on that . Haven't had to treat any lately... and this jersey I got at auction last year... it will be her first time calving here so we will see. She did not seem to be a very heavy producer so hopefully will not be a problem.
The comment on the 60-90 day dry period was actually directed more towards @TexasJerseyMilker because her old cow had been dry for years after the mastitis she had gotten and that they had not bred her or had her in production for several years. So a different scenario on a normal cow that has been dry for the 60+ normal dry period. Giving her the boluses pre and post calving were probably enough to prevent any "milk fever" since she had not been in production for several years and so it did not "start back up" her system like if she had been milking, then dry, then back into production.
There is no rhyme or reason to who shows signs of milk fever. But my thoughts on the butterfat correlation is because one of my dairy farmers that had registered holsteins and reg brown swiss, would have some milk fever in his holsteins and they had a much higher than average butterfat than holsteins at other farms ... his often ran in the 4.0 to 4.5 range.. Also being high producers.... and then the swiss did not seem to get milk fever often, yet they had over 4% fat most of the time... Go figure......but the swiss did not come into their milk quite as fast.... so it did not "tax" their system so fast right in the beginning.
It seems that jerseys, and holsteins mammary systems "jump right in" with producing alot of milk right off the bat... like a switch turns on and it goes into overdrive.... and the higher butterfat seems to be more at the trigger for milk fever.
AGAIN, just my personal observations over the years of being a milk tester on farms, listening to farmers, and a few of my own jerseys compared to all the other breeds of dairy animals I have had for milking and nurse cows.
Would be an interesting thing to be studied... maybe by some student at an ag college....
OP
OP
@farmerjan
You've really lighten the guilt I've been putting on myself about this. Thank you very much for that. That's very interesting on the milk vein. I was under the impression to avoid any contact with the milk veins because they bleed out fast and aren't easy to stop from bleeding. I really wasn't sure if that was true or not but a milk vein would absolutely be easier to get than the neck. I struggle with bovine jugular veins. Can get a horse or small animal pretty easily but for some reason I don't do great with jugular. I did get a bit of a better hands on tutorial with these treatments. I go at too much of an angle with the needle. More like I would with a horse. When I saw our friend go basically straight in it caught me off guard but yet he hit the vein perfectly. I also haven't been using a long enough needle in past trials. I can get a tail vein in my sleep though for drawing blood. My job was to watch respiration the second round so I could be aware if anything changed so he could slow the IV. He explained a lot both times that really gave me some confidence I can handle this next time at the early signs. They do such a good job at seeing their cows and knowing the small signs I rarely even hear about them having one down with milk fever. I really appreciate they are willing to point out even the little things.
The faster absorption on the paste vs boluses makes sense. That would be more beneficial in a downed cow milk fever case. I think I'll grab a couple tubes to have on hand along with the boluses. That would explain why he still had me give the boluses post IV and SQ treatments. Longer term absorption.
I think you are probably onto something. I'll certainly be paying more attention to that at the dairy now along with our own cows. It would be interesting if it would be studied. I bet that could really come in handy for dairies since they test every milk detail anyways and could maybe get a better prediction of who's higher risk.
Cow and calf update:
We are back to milking and so far so good. We didn't milk yesterday to give her a chance to stabilize and not put a sudden surge to her system from milking. Our friends though that was best and probably what caused her to go back down again was milking her that night. Happy to report the cow is 100% back to normal. Got great milk tonight and a clean milk filter which is wonderful to see. All things are functioning normal now. The calf is so far doing fantastic. I'm starting to think the new "first defense" bolus I gave him is making a huge impact. Usually by now we have some over eating/too much cream runs starting. As of tonight we have perfect poop, tons of energy and feeling great. So a great update I am very happy to post.
You've really lighten the guilt I've been putting on myself about this. Thank you very much for that. That's very interesting on the milk vein. I was under the impression to avoid any contact with the milk veins because they bleed out fast and aren't easy to stop from bleeding. I really wasn't sure if that was true or not but a milk vein would absolutely be easier to get than the neck. I struggle with bovine jugular veins. Can get a horse or small animal pretty easily but for some reason I don't do great with jugular. I did get a bit of a better hands on tutorial with these treatments. I go at too much of an angle with the needle. More like I would with a horse. When I saw our friend go basically straight in it caught me off guard but yet he hit the vein perfectly. I also haven't been using a long enough needle in past trials. I can get a tail vein in my sleep though for drawing blood. My job was to watch respiration the second round so I could be aware if anything changed so he could slow the IV. He explained a lot both times that really gave me some confidence I can handle this next time at the early signs. They do such a good job at seeing their cows and knowing the small signs I rarely even hear about them having one down with milk fever. I really appreciate they are willing to point out even the little things.
The faster absorption on the paste vs boluses makes sense. That would be more beneficial in a downed cow milk fever case. I think I'll grab a couple tubes to have on hand along with the boluses. That would explain why he still had me give the boluses post IV and SQ treatments. Longer term absorption.
I think you are probably onto something. I'll certainly be paying more attention to that at the dairy now along with our own cows. It would be interesting if it would be studied. I bet that could really come in handy for dairies since they test every milk detail anyways and could maybe get a better prediction of who's higher risk.
Cow and calf update:
We are back to milking and so far so good. We didn't milk yesterday to give her a chance to stabilize and not put a sudden surge to her system from milking. Our friends though that was best and probably what caused her to go back down again was milking her that night. Happy to report the cow is 100% back to normal. Got great milk tonight and a clean milk filter which is wonderful to see. All things are functioning normal now. The calf is so far doing fantastic. I'm starting to think the new "first defense" bolus I gave him is making a huge impact. Usually by now we have some over eating/too much cream runs starting. As of tonight we have perfect poop, tons of energy and feeling great. So a great update I am very happy to post.
farmerjan
Well-known member
Most cows with milk fever we only milk out a little for one or 2 milkings... half or less... so that it does not cause their system to go all out to replace the milk... but stimulates them a little... many do not milk the first milking after treatment. That was good a very advice from your friend. I am glad that you had someone that could help you like that.
Hope she continues to do good...
Hope she continues to do good...
OP
OP
That's good to know. He said he forgot to tell me to skip a milking. Think he felt bad. We milk PM and she was treated very early in the AM. I was surprised that wasn't long enough to normalize. Lesson learned for sure. They skip a milking or two vs partial milking. Interesting hearing how different dairies/people do it. We are very blessed to have them available and willing to help.
OP
OP
Cow has a pretty swollen and sore neck from the IV on one side and too short of a needle used for it. It was all he had not realizing I had the right length for her. Otherwise she's doing ok. Seems a bit off from her sore neck but everything is normal otherwise.
So far so good on the calf. He's still proud to be scour free which is incredible. He's drinking quite a bit of milk and having the time of his life. He races around until he's panting. Especially after dark when the temps finally get under 80*. I think we are skipping adding another calf this time around. It's hot and yucky and I think she's had enough fun this time around. Maybe when we wean this calf we'll get a pair of calves to put on her. We'll see how it goes when the time comes. In the meantime we're stocking up on butter, cheese, cream and freeze dried milk. Will get some calf pictures to post soon.
So far so good on the calf. He's still proud to be scour free which is incredible. He's drinking quite a bit of milk and having the time of his life. He races around until he's panting. Especially after dark when the temps finally get under 80*. I think we are skipping adding another calf this time around. It's hot and yucky and I think she's had enough fun this time around. Maybe when we wean this calf we'll get a pair of calves to put on her. We'll see how it goes when the time comes. In the meantime we're stocking up on butter, cheese, cream and freeze dried milk. Will get some calf pictures to post soon.
