Now I'm sweating....

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Alan

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Had a cow give birth last night to my first calf out of the clean up bull I had last season. He was a yearling bull but seemed to get everyone I missed AIing covered. But he has me really sweating, the calf's birth weight is 103lb, the cow had no problems the calf is strong and healthy, went straight to mom for another meal after the tags, shots and weighing. My vent is because I still have 2 first calf heifers to calve out of this bull :???: . His BW is 3.6, so I thought he would be a good canidate for the heifers, I hope this was a one time deal. The bull was shipped last summer, after breeding season, but we'll do what we need to to get things done.... It's just that our calving season has taken another real turn. Another reason to slow down and take my time AIing.

Just a vent, thanks,
Alan
 

dun

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What kind of weight did the cows previous calves run. So far we've only had 3 from our cleanup bull, 2 were65 and 72 pounds, the third out of a cow that always has a 85-90 pound calf had hers at 87 pounds. The first 2 were smaller then their cows usual calves.
Problem with using bulls with low accuracy is they can change radically. We bought a heifer a few years ago that was bred to a bull with low proofs that had a calving ease of +7, breed average for Red Angus is around +5. The heifer had a 105 pound giant and now the bulls calving ease is -6 after 4 seasons and higher accuracy. Same thing happened with the milk EPD on another bull. He was just above breed average when we used him now he is less then a third and his one daughter we kept has pretty well proved that.
 
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Alan

Alan

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ANAZAZI":39es71g8 said:
How many do you expect from this bull?

Only 6 claves out of this bull, but it's the 2 heifers and a cow, (which this is her third calf, last years calf was no assist, but her first was a breech, backwards) I'm concerned about. As I said we can deal with it, it's just been a disappointing season this year. In the prefect world ever calf you hoped would be a hiefer is, you find her in the lush green grass on a warm sunny morning with a belly full of milk. She's born on the due date of the AIing, with a bull that is a perfect match to my cow.... wait I must have drifted off at the key board. :D

Alan
 
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Alan

Alan

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This is the 5th calf for the new mama, she has had 2 at 85lbs, one at 89lbs and one at 86lb, 3 bulls and 2 heifers. I will say the she is a very easy keeper, seems to get fat looking at hay.

Thanks,
Alan
 

bigbull338

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personally i would not use a bull with a 3.6 BW on heifers.an yes i know he is a clean up bull.so id watch whats left real close.
 
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Alan

Alan

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I don't think that a 3.6 BW is too high for a calving ease EPD on a Hereford bull (CE is .7). When I have more time I'll look for the average BW (LBS) of a Polled Hereford calf. But I think you guys are a bit off base saying 3.6 is too high (3.6 is .1 below the Hereford average BW EPD). I agree with Dun that it's the zero percentile on EPD's that matters. Remember this is one calf out of 6 that is due.... don't jump to conclusions.

JMO,
Alan
 

dun

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Alan":pbvdiz0i said:
I don't think that a 3.6 BW is too high for a calving ease EPD on a Hereford bull (CE is .7). When I have more time I'll look for the average BW (LBS) of a Polled Hereford calf. But I think you guys are a bit off base saying 3.6 is too high (3.6 is .1 below the Hereford average BW EPD). I agree with Dun that it's the zero percentile on EPD's that matters. Remember this is one calf out of 6 that is due.... don't jump to conclusions.

JMO,
Alan

3.5 is the breed average for Herefords BW. It may be a little too much for a heifer.
 

CWT Angus

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What are the BW EPD's on the cow that calved & the heifers you are still waiting on? Remember that figures in as well. Hopefully the heifers have lower BW #'s than the cow?
 

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dun":3jiy4cou said:
Alan":3jiy4cou said:
I don't think that a 3.6 BW is too high for a calving ease EPD on a Hereford bull (CE is .7). When I have more time I'll look for the average BW (LBS) of a Polled Hereford calf. But I think you guys are a bit off base saying 3.6 is too high (3.6 is .1 below the Hereford average BW EPD). I agree with Dun that it's the zero percentile on EPD's that matters. Remember this is one calf out of 6 that is due.... don't jump to conclusions.

JMO,
Alan

3.5 is the breed average for Herefords BW. It may be a little too much for a heifer.

In my opinion a registered heifer worthy of being registered should be able to have a calf of breed average size without problems.

An 89lb calf out of a mature cow is slightly bigger than my preference, but its not a huge calf by any means
 

bigbull338

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my bull is what i consider a calving ease bull.but my bro had to pull a calf last nite.only because the calf got hung up.an the calf was pretty good size.
 

dun

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bigbull338":5mhzhgzr said:
my bull is what i consider a calving ease bull.but my bro had to pull a calf last nite.only because the calf got hung up.an the calf was pretty good size.
Cow still contributes half of the genetics and 100% of the nurturing environment
 

KNERSIE

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dun":yukqwq2a said:
bigbull338":yukqwq2a said:
my bull is what i consider a calving ease bull.but my bro had to pull a calf last nite.only because the calf got hung up.an the calf was pretty good size.
Cow still contributes half of the genetics and 100% of the nurturing environment

That is the part that is often overlooked!
 
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Alan

Alan

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The BW on the cow is 3.8 with a CE of -.4. I too think that she probably had a lot of do with size of the calf. She's not a big framed cow but she is a very easy keeper and she may have had the calf in the oven a little pass her due date. I had a bull for 4 years with a BW 3.1, used him on pleny of heifers. during that time I only had to pull one calf, but it was a breech.

I think its too early to pass judgement with only one calf on the ground.... I hope :D

Alan :D
 

bigbull338

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the cow was a hereford X hol.an she only gets hay in winter an grass the rest of the time.so it could be her genetics.
 

Nesikep

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we are a little concerned with our bull as well, the previous bull we had was great, he'd have big calves on the older cows, in th 90 lb range, and on the heifers he's have 65 lb calves, which is perfect, this one has had 6 of 12 calves over 100 lbs, I think the lightest one was an 80 lb heifer calf, from 5 year old cow, and the heaviest a 140 lb calf on a 5 year old cow as well, but 2 of our heifers had 100 and 110 lb bulls calves, one needed pulling but that was mainly because he came out hind end first. we've been lucky so far, but we also have a decent set of cows to work with, we know he'd be unsuited for a 1000 lb hereford heifer.. Oh, wait, when we bought our cows (which had had pelvic measurements, etc) we had a complete cluster**** and lost many cows

Anhyhow, best of luck, keep a close eye on those heifers!
 

dun

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bigbull338":1z2gb1xj said:
the cow was a hereford X hol.an she only gets hay in winter an grass the rest of the time.so it could be her genetics.

Heterosis doesn;t start at birth
 

Frankie

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Alan":24iotq7b said:
Had a cow give birth last night to my first calf out of the clean up bull I had last season. He was a yearling bull but seemed to get everyone I missed AIing covered. But he has me really sweating, the calf's birth weight is 103lb, the cow had no problems the calf is strong and healthy, went straight to mom for another meal after the tags, shots and weighing. My vent is because I still have 2 first calf heifers to calve out of this bull :???: . His BW is 3.6, so I thought he would be a good canidate for the heifers, I hope this was a one time deal. The bull was shipped last summer, after breeding season, but we'll do what we need to to get things done.... It's just that our calving season has taken another real turn. Another reason to slow down and take my time AIing.

Just a vent, thanks,
Alan

Yikes. You do know that a 3.6 lb Hereford EPD is comparable to an Angus 6+ BW EPD? Good luck with them....
 
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Alan

Alan

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Frankie":2pr2jezu said:
Yikes. You do know that a 3.6 lb Hereford EPD is comparable to an Angus 6+ BW EPD? Good luck with them....

The current avg BW for Herefords is 3.5 (I stand corrected by Dun, I was looking at data a little old). The current Angus BW (current sires) is 2.2. My old clean up bull BW is 0.1 above the average, can you help me understand how a bull that has a BW of 6+ or 3.8+ over breed average is comparible?

I'm not trying to defend my bull, he has long since grown wheels and I'm sure long since been slaughtered. He was nothing more than a one season clean up bull that I raised and didn't have to pay $2K for he did what he was meant to do, catch the cows I missed (a lot), put calves on the ground (with luck) and pay for himself when I shipped him. I don't think the sky is falling... but I'm smart enough to know tht you never know.

Thanks,
Alan
 

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