We are looking to get a new drill. We will be using it to overseed ryegrass and clover into bahia and bermuda sod and to establish new bahia pasture. I am looking for opinions about different brands of drill. We are looking for a drill that can plant seed as small as white clover at an accurate depth.
No Till Drills
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1982vett
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How many acres a year are you planning to use it on?
Neighbor and I went in together 4-5 years ago on a used Tye, 3-point Pasture Dream or is it a Pasture Pleaser? Forget right now, anyway it takes a little time to get the experience to get it set up for what you are doing for the type of soil. I'd recommend a pull-behind for easier depth placement but the little 3-point is working OK in our heavy soil. It is easy to get planting dept to deep in lighter soil (especially sandy) with the 3-point.
I imagine any brand will work OK, but the Tye we have has some plastic parts that aren't easily changed out so I'd avoid anything with plastic seed metering parts (plastic anything for that matter) if you are going to use it a lot. I think price is going to play a large part of what you end up with. My Tye does a good job planting 2 lbs of Ball clover/acre accurately.
Neighbor and I went in together 4-5 years ago on a used Tye, 3-point Pasture Dream or is it a Pasture Pleaser? Forget right now, anyway it takes a little time to get the experience to get it set up for what you are doing for the type of soil. I'd recommend a pull-behind for easier depth placement but the little 3-point is working OK in our heavy soil. It is easy to get planting dept to deep in lighter soil (especially sandy) with the 3-point.
I imagine any brand will work OK, but the Tye we have has some plastic parts that aren't easily changed out so I'd avoid anything with plastic seed metering parts (plastic anything for that matter) if you are going to use it a lot. I think price is going to play a large part of what you end up with. My Tye does a good job planting 2 lbs of Ball clover/acre accurately.
We will be using it on approximately 100 acres a year for clover and ryegrass. A smaller drill would be fine for us as we probably don't have the horsepower to pull a 15ft no till, anyway. Our soil is very sandy.
Just out of curiosity, how is the ball clover working for you. That's one of the varieties we plan to try this year.
Just out of curiosity, how is the ball clover working for you. That's one of the varieties we plan to try this year.
We used an OLD Graham-Hoeme no-till drill for many years in the sandy soils of NE TX. We moved to the black dirt of Central TX now and the old girl is falling apart. Can't find parts for it anymore, so we are also in the market for a new drill. We've been looking at Tye and Great Plains. I would rather buy a good used one than a new one, but no luck finding it so far.
Angus Cowman
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I really like the haybuster No tills thye are a little pricey but good drills
if Kenny Thomas doesn't respond send him a PM as He bought a new haybuster last yr and ask him how he likes it
just be sure you get the small seed attachment and it will plant clover just fine
if Kenny Thomas doesn't respond send him a PM as He bought a new haybuster last yr and ask him how he likes it
just be sure you get the small seed attachment and it will plant clover just fine
I got a used Haybuster last year, maybe the year before, it has the samll seed hopper and the WSG seed set up. Pricey but worth it. Check with some of the online equipment listing deals, you may find what you want close by.Angus Cowman":1f4a3mye said:
Our soil conservation office used to have a haybuster that I didn't like very much, but it didn't look like the models on Haybuster's web site. It had 2 disc openers that were offset by about 12-16 inches and the depth was very inaccurate. Do the Haybuster drills you own have coulters or these offset discs?
kenny thomas
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We have the Haybuster 107 that dun links to. Bought it new last year. $19,000
We had the opportunity to see it side by side with the Great Plains. Liked it much better. It is really made heavy.
We planted 310 acres in sod last spring with no problems.
Planted orchard grass, timothy, fescue, red clover, and a few acres of oats.
We had the opportunity to see it side by side with the Great Plains. Liked it much better. It is really made heavy.
We planted 310 acres in sod last spring with no problems.
Planted orchard grass, timothy, fescue, red clover, and a few acres of oats.
Red Bull Breeder
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The Haybuster drills are way tough. Lots easier to set up than a tye pasture pleaser.
CJohnson
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I have 2 drills: a 12 foot Marliss no till that has openers in the front then 2 disc coulters, then packing wheel. I have a a large and small seed box. I can take the front opener discs off for sandy soil and clover. The advantage is 12 foot wide, can cover more ground. The disadvantage is the rows are 8 inches apart which is wider than I want for small grain, ryegrass, or clover. Also can get small seeds too deep especially in sand. To get the grass as thick as I want it I have to go over it twice at 90 degree angle like a checkerboard.
My other drill is a Greenscape conservation seeder. It is 7 foot wide, has 2 drums with spikes on it, kind of like an aerator. It has 3 seedboxes, 2 for large seeds and 1 for clover. I plants the seed by dropping between the drums instead of in rows so you get a smooth swath of grass instead of a line in the pasture. This gives a better stand. I like being able to plant mixture of small grain, ryegrass and clover. It will not plant clover too deep because seed is just on the surface. What I don't like about it is the 7 foot width. I can only plant 20 to 25 acres per day.
A friend bought an Attchison. It has a spring like device that puts the seed down in the ground instead of cutting discs. He says it would not work to overseed burmudagrass because the grass kept balling up on the springs, and he is trying to sell it after one season.
I would love to have 2 haybusters and run them side by side. Could cover a lot of ground quickly. I think the row spacing is better on the haybuster than my Marliss. I have considered trying to add a couple of more tubes / coulters, etc to have 5-6 inch spacing instead of 8. I bought it used, I think was made more for planting soybeans than grasses for pasture.
Link for Greenscape if you are interested:
http://brglimited.com/equipment/greenscape.html
My other drill is a Greenscape conservation seeder. It is 7 foot wide, has 2 drums with spikes on it, kind of like an aerator. It has 3 seedboxes, 2 for large seeds and 1 for clover. I plants the seed by dropping between the drums instead of in rows so you get a smooth swath of grass instead of a line in the pasture. This gives a better stand. I like being able to plant mixture of small grain, ryegrass and clover. It will not plant clover too deep because seed is just on the surface. What I don't like about it is the 7 foot width. I can only plant 20 to 25 acres per day.
A friend bought an Attchison. It has a spring like device that puts the seed down in the ground instead of cutting discs. He says it would not work to overseed burmudagrass because the grass kept balling up on the springs, and he is trying to sell it after one season.
I would love to have 2 haybusters and run them side by side. Could cover a lot of ground quickly. I think the row spacing is better on the haybuster than my Marliss. I have considered trying to add a couple of more tubes / coulters, etc to have 5-6 inch spacing instead of 8. I bought it used, I think was made more for planting soybeans than grasses for pasture.
Link for Greenscape if you are interested:
http://brglimited.com/equipment/greenscape.html
kenny thomas
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Another plus for the haybuster is the transport width is the almost the same as the planting width. On some of the other brands a 10 ft planting width is 12 ft transport width.
1982vett
Well-known member
gberry":14qqemf0 said:
Sorry I haven't answered back already. Been busy sneezing my head off with my eyeballs rolled back in my head. The ball clover is getting to be a sore subject. :lol: I've been trying off and on since 2005 and probably bought and wasted about $1000 worth of seed. Most of the problem getting it started (till this year) I have to attibute to irregular weather patterns and drought. It takes more than 1 rain over 35 days to keep it growing after it sprouts.
My attempt this year is still questionable. I was planting Apache and Yucchi in the pastures with oats and ryegrass. Finally got on the last oat patch in November (still kind of wet) and was going to run out of clover seed. Decided to add a bag of Ball to the mix (try it one more time). Hindsight now tells me I should have pulled the tubes out and let the seed fall on the ground. The planter was making inch deep groves. It was coming up when we got a hard 3 inch rain. Any clover that was in the bottom of the planting groove got covered up in the wash. The ryegrass and clover were tall enough that it didn't phase them.
It has been to wet to get out and take a closer look lately. Last time I looked several weeks ago the clover was still to small to really identify the variety (not having my glasses didn't help). I've had better luck with the Yucchi over the Apache this year, but I think planting condidtions are at play again. The ground was on the wet side when I planted (was going to get wetter) and I ended up getting a lot of it in to deep also.
1982vett":molvzkux said:
We've had pretty poor luck with clovers of all varieties despite our soil tests coming back with results that should be good for clover. That's one of the reasons were looking for a new seeder. I believe our failure may be due to planting too deep with our current drill, or poor soil to seed contact when broadcast. I am hoping that an upgrade in drills will allow us to get a better stand of clover and save some of that expensive seed. I thought the greenscape planter above looked pretty good for planting both. I am tired of wasting the money on seed and would like to eliminate planting errors as the cause of poor stands.
1982vett
Well-known member
That greenscape planter does look like it would do a nice job in prepared seed beds or sandy soils.
What I planted this year is on blackland prarie. Heavy soil. Get on it while to wet, the coulters cut a v-shape trench without bringing up enough loose dirt for the packer wheels to push anything back on the seed. When it rains the seed gets washed to the botton of the grove cut by the coulter and it ends up to deep. To shallow and it dries out to fast if you don't get a good rain. I got one 8 acre patch that I hit a home run on. It is Yucchi. Coulters were cutting the turf nice and making a grove with loose dirt. The day I planted it was supposed to rain all day. Could have gotten more planted had I started the day before getting the planter ready but since it was supposed to rain I didn't. Finally after noon, it still wasn't raining and didn't look like it was so I got busy and managed to get 8 acres in before dark. Rained that night a slow inch or so. Stuff was coming up in just a few days so at least I now know that I can get it right. I think this year would have been a good year to just throw it out on the ground and drag or let the cows walk it in. Tried that in 2006 but it didn't work. Rains weren't coming often enough. Didn't even try in 2007 and 2008 drilled but was the same old sprout and die from lack of rain thing.
I know how you feel about wasting money on seed that you can't get to come up and grow. I've spent a fair amount the past couple years with no luck, but it wasn't any different for me or anyone else in the area that was optimistic enough to try.
What I planted this year is on blackland prarie. Heavy soil. Get on it while to wet, the coulters cut a v-shape trench without bringing up enough loose dirt for the packer wheels to push anything back on the seed. When it rains the seed gets washed to the botton of the grove cut by the coulter and it ends up to deep. To shallow and it dries out to fast if you don't get a good rain. I got one 8 acre patch that I hit a home run on. It is Yucchi. Coulters were cutting the turf nice and making a grove with loose dirt. The day I planted it was supposed to rain all day. Could have gotten more planted had I started the day before getting the planter ready but since it was supposed to rain I didn't. Finally after noon, it still wasn't raining and didn't look like it was so I got busy and managed to get 8 acres in before dark. Rained that night a slow inch or so. Stuff was coming up in just a few days so at least I now know that I can get it right. I think this year would have been a good year to just throw it out on the ground and drag or let the cows walk it in. Tried that in 2006 but it didn't work. Rains weren't coming often enough. Didn't even try in 2007 and 2008 drilled but was the same old sprout and die from lack of rain thing.
I know how you feel about wasting money on seed that you can't get to come up and grow. I've spent a fair amount the past couple years with no luck, but it wasn't any different for me or anyone else in the area that was optimistic enough to try.
JRGidaho`
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I hadn't seen the Greenscape seeder before. It does look like a neat little outfit.
In the past I have used several types of no-till drills for pasture seeding. Here is my order of preference and a few reasons why.
1) Moore (made in Ireland originally) and in the US as Kelley Uni-Drill nor Gilmore-Tagge Versa drill. Pros: Has 4" row spacing for solid stand. Very heavy press wheels for seed-soil contact. Just one adjustment for seeding rate and quite accurate. Cons: Difficult to find anymore and even harder to find parts.
2) Haybuster (same as Vermeer). Pros: very durable, multiple seed boxes, parts readily available. Cons: depth control is not as consistent as I would like.
3) Great Plains. Pros: Ok on most things. Cons: On the model we used depth control was by changing the number of bushings on each shank. Maybe it's better now. It was a hassle.
4) JD Powertill. Pros: well made piece of equipment but required lots of maintenance. Cons: Nothing costs like a Deere
5) Tye. Pros: Low cost and low hp requirements to pull Cons: High maintenance
I used a Truax a couple of times but I don't remember much about the experience so overall it must have been positive.
In the past I have used several types of no-till drills for pasture seeding. Here is my order of preference and a few reasons why.
1) Moore (made in Ireland originally) and in the US as Kelley Uni-Drill nor Gilmore-Tagge Versa drill. Pros: Has 4" row spacing for solid stand. Very heavy press wheels for seed-soil contact. Just one adjustment for seeding rate and quite accurate. Cons: Difficult to find anymore and even harder to find parts.
2) Haybuster (same as Vermeer). Pros: very durable, multiple seed boxes, parts readily available. Cons: depth control is not as consistent as I would like.
3) Great Plains. Pros: Ok on most things. Cons: On the model we used depth control was by changing the number of bushings on each shank. Maybe it's better now. It was a hassle.
4) JD Powertill. Pros: well made piece of equipment but required lots of maintenance. Cons: Nothing costs like a Deere
5) Tye. Pros: Low cost and low hp requirements to pull Cons: High maintenance
I used a Truax a couple of times but I don't remember much about the experience so overall it must have been positive.
CJohnson
Well-known member
If you are wanting to mainly plant clover and ryegrass, you can't beat the Greenscape. It will not plant it too deep. It is more durable on rough ground than a no till drill. You need a fairly good size tractor for the 7 foot, at least 50 HP but really 60 is better. It is pretty heavy and is on a 3 point hitch.
I think the #1 cause of clover stand failure that you can do anything about is planting the seed too deep. Especially white clover. I have a lot of Ball and love it. I either use the Greenscape or just broadcast it on the surface if ground is wet. Sometimes I plant a little Crimson with Elbon rye and ryegrass with the traditional seeder. In this circumstance I put the crimson in the small seedbox and take the tubes off so the seed just falls out on the surface of the disturbed soil. Crimson is a larger seed, so not as much risk. Using a no till drill for white clover is very likely to get the seed too deep, so would not plant it that way. You can also just use a disk to scratch the surface, then broadcast and drag.
I think the #1 cause of clover stand failure that you can do anything about is planting the seed too deep. Especially white clover. I have a lot of Ball and love it. I either use the Greenscape or just broadcast it on the surface if ground is wet. Sometimes I plant a little Crimson with Elbon rye and ryegrass with the traditional seeder. In this circumstance I put the crimson in the small seedbox and take the tubes off so the seed just falls out on the surface of the disturbed soil. Crimson is a larger seed, so not as much risk. Using a no till drill for white clover is very likely to get the seed too deep, so would not plant it that way. You can also just use a disk to scratch the surface, then broadcast and drag.
novatech
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Clover needs nothing more than good soil contact. The rain is usually enough to get proper depth. I have seen some of the best stands planted directly onto heavily grazed pastures where most of the vegetation was grazed off. Broadcast on top and a toothed harrow pulled behind.gberry":1js2n188 said:
I have used a disc harrow to disturb the soil. Then planted on top running a packer behind with good results. Not a cultipacker but one with smooth wheels. I have used a cultipacker on undesturbed soils with good results.
Personally I cannot see how any planter would work for clover. 1/4 in. is the maximum depth that most of the seed will tolerate for germination. Unless your pasture is as smooth as a pool table you are bound to have a percentage to deep.
As far as rye is concerned I have had good stands planting it on top as well. Better stands disturbing the soil first then planting on top and tooth harrow in.
If you use verities that will reseed, and manage it so that it can do so, then planting is a one time event.
Given this you would never have to invest in equipment as expensive as a no-til. For that matter you could take the money you save and more than double the amount of seed per acre, and have the fertilizer co. mix the seed in with the fertilizer broadcasting both at the same time.
The shallow depth that clover is planted also means that moisture is a critical issue. You need several days of moisture for the plant to survive. First it has to have enough to germinate. Then it has to have enough to survive long enough to get a root down deep enough for survival. Rhizobium bacteria are very susceptible to heat and inoculant should be stored in a refrigerator until ready to plant. Inoculated seed should only be planted when soil contains sufficient moisture.
A good video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK2Rnbx1 ... re=related
