No one using IVF technology here ??

[Lorenzo]

I have done some search in this forum and it seems nobody uses IVF embryos :shock: :shock: :shock:

Instead you are flushing the best donors..??? more :shock: :shock:

Why is this ? There are not much IVF labs there ?

IVF allows somone to use better or more expensive semen because you just need less straws, with one straw we are inseminating around 10 cows. Also you protect the donors as you don't have to give them hormons. Many flushings can spoil donors for ever....

With this technology you can have aprox. 30 offsprings per cow per year against less than 10 that you can have flushing and spoiling the best donors. Also you can have offsprings of 8 months females, pregnat cows, dead cows, or cows that doesn't work anymore because of too much flushing.

The weakness of this technology is that you need a lot of receiptors as you have to transfer the embryos at the seven days of the insemination, so you work with them "fresh". If you frozen them you will not have good pregnacies rates. But with a little of logistics and enough receiptors you should not think it twice !!

L

 

[novatech]

Here is a good article that may interest you. http://www.transova.com/transova/images ... cattle.pdf
If I ever get a cow good enough IVF will be the technique used.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I knew we were doing IVF here, but thought it was used only for real problem breeders.
It is a more costly venture than flushing. I'm hearing less & less about cows being "ruined" by flushing them. Most breeders flush cows for a while than breed them for a natural calf, then flush some more.
We presently have a cow that has produced 64 viable embyos in the past 5 months (3 flushes). They plan on flushing her 1 or 2 more times than breeding her for a Jan calving.
I don't think there are very many IVF labs around.

 

[alexfarms]

I have done some search in this forum and it seems nobody uses IVF embryos :shock: :shock: :shock:

Instead you are flushing the best donors..??? more :shock: :shock:

Why is this ? There are not much IVF labs there ?

IVF allows somone to use better or more expensive semen because you just need less straws, with one straw we are inseminating around 10 cows. Also you protect the donors as you don't have to give them hormons. Many flushings can spoil donors for ever....

With this technology you can have aprox. 30 offsprings per cow per year against less than 10 that you can have flushing and spoiling the best donors. Also you can have offsprings of 8 months females, pregnat cows, dead cows, or cows that doesn't work anymore because of too much flushing.

The weakness of this technology is that you need a lot of receiptors as you have to transfer the embryos at the seven days of the insemination, so you work with them "fresh". If you frozen them you will not have good pregnacies rates. But with a little of logistics and enough receiptors you should not think it twice !!

L

Seems like I was told IVF was for certain situations...ie: expenive or rare semen; problem donors; dead donors; using thawed semen that was then sexed. I think it was more expensive and resulted in a lower pregnancy rate also.
If you are getting 30 offspring, then are you splitting the eggs or embryos?
I ran into a problem with some semen on one bull. The semen checks out fine in the lab. I have had it checked at 2 labs (one was Trans Ova at Sioux Center, IA) and both said it was good quality semen. Then when it is used in a flush it results in no fertilizations. Another man told me he tried it on a cow in Canada at Alta Genetics (i believe) and they told him the same thing...'for some reason it just doesn't work in flushes'. Have you ever run into this problem with semen? Would semen like this work better in IVF? Even just with AI, pregnancies are very hit and miss, miss, miss with this semen.

 

[Lorenzo]

We presently have a cow that has produced 64 viable embyos in the past 5 months (3 flushes).

Wowww, that gives you 21,3 viable embryos per flushing !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Is that a Bos Taurus cow or Bos Indicus..???

Congratulations, that is not a cow, that's an embryo factory !! :clap:

L

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

She's a 2000 born purebred Simmental cow. She was nursing her March bull calf when they did the first flush. We have her at another farm, coop-ing the flushes, and they are THRILLED with her!!
Her flushes have been great, but it is not that unusual to get 15-20 a flush - just not usually consistantly flush after flush. Of course, she had more eggs than that - some not fertilized & some not good enough.

So how are you getting 30 embryos/yr/cow?

 

[Lorenzo]

You have a great cow without doubts. I have produce lots of flushed embryos also and in average a "meat" cow gives you aprox. 6 viable embryos and a dairy cow gives you 3 viable embryos. This is an average of our experience.

Thanks God there are not much cows like yours out there because if not the IVF technology will dissappear..

The production of bovine in-vitro embryos (IVF), begins with follicular aspiration (OPU) conducted on the donor cow's ovaries. Oocytes are collected from live animals by follicular aspiration of the ovaries, with the help of an ultrasound scanner.

The OPU technique consists of aspirating oocytes contained inside the ovaries' follicles through aspiration by negative pressure. Ovaries are reached via the rectum and they are brought nearer to the cervix. A probe with an ultrasound guide is introduced all the way to the cervix and the ovary is then touched with the point of the transducer in order to visualize the follicles. The probe has a spindle containing the needle that is connected to the aspiration pump; the vagina wall is punctured with the needle and the follicles located on the dissection line are punctured in such a way that the oocytes contained inside the follicles may be aspirated.

After aspiration of both ovaries, the collected material is transferred to the laboratory set up in the field, where the aspirated liquid will then be filtered. The resulting material is then placed on a peltri dish. With the help of a microscope and a pipette, the oocytes are separated from the liquid; then they are classified and packed to be transferred to the main laboratory. Once they reach the laboratory, the collected oocytes are placed in a maturity medium and an incubator during a 24-hour period until they can be fertilized in vitro. Seven days after fertilization, and after going through several changes in the culture medium, the embryos are ready to be transfered to receptor cows of low genetic value.

If we aspirate a cow two times a month and it gives you aprox. 8 viable embryos pero month ergo 4 pregnacies per month. Lets stay in the safe side and say that you have 3 pregnacies per month without giving the donor a single hormone !!

L

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That's really interesting. Thanks for explaining. I've assisted in flushing, but did not know or understand the IVF tech.
Miss Power Lass gave 18 1st time, 20 2nd & 26 third time. I call her a fertile myrtle.

 

[Keren]

?? All the cows I have had experience with have given between 15 - 25 embryos. Sometimes down to 12.

Is your technology different Lorenzo? Because I have certainly never heard of getting an average as poor as 3 - 6 embryos??

 

[Lorenzo]

Sincerely I don't understand what all of you are talking about. Don´t get me wrong but :

The world average for MOET embryos is between 5 and 6 viable embryos !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes a cow gives more but the world average is that, 5 /6 viable, grade 1, embryo per cow. So or you are frozen every single embryo despite the quality or we are comparing apples with bananas :cowboy:

L

 

[HerefordSire]

This is the same thing as a test tube baby, correct? Do you also split the embryos successfully?

 

[Lorenzo]

Let separate things before we make the mess bigger :lol:

MOET embryos, you give hormones to the donor for produce a multiple ovulation, then you inseminate and then you flush the embryos from her.

IVF embryos, you aspirate de follicules from the donor and bring the inmature oocytes back to the lab, you madurate them during 24 hours and then you inseminate them. Here the donor doesn't receive any hormones so she dont multiovulate.

Not all bulls behave well at the IVF, even sometimes semen from the same bull colected in different ocassions behaves diferent.

The costs are similar. I will talk about price here because I am not selling anything, you have to work with these embryos fresh, not frozen them. So it's impossible to sell something that doesn't work once you froze it

I gave the breeder two options, they can buy embryos or they can buy pregnacies.

If they want embryos, I sell them at 100 bucks each. They must pay the vet that transfer the embryos around 60 bucks.

If they want pregnacies, I charge 400 bucks for every pregnat cow or heifer after 60 days and the transferation is included.

As simple as that.

L

 

[HerefordSire]

Does $400 USD include the recipient? What currency do you use and what is the exchange rate for the USD?

 

[Lorenzo]

Hi, just back from dinner (1:30 am), sure we have dinner much later than up there

No, recipient is not included for those 400 bucks.
The exchange rate is aprox. 23 uruguayan pesos per american dollar.

L