Niche breeds that marble well and finish in good time?

[phean]

Hi,

I'm looking for a breed to AI a few Angus/dairy cows. My goal is to have great marbling, small to medium frame calves that can finish on grass, hay and a little grain in a reasonable amount of time. I sell a few sides to friends and family in the Bay Area who are foodies. I have about 50 acres of range, but its VERY steep and we have a lot of erosion problems (very low stocking rate). We are north of San Francisco and are in a severe drought now, but even in the best times only get rain nov-may so mostly low quality forage. Last year I used a waygu since a had a few heifers and I was ok with a small calf. The waygu/angus cross seems to be a great mix of marbling and faster finishing than a pure waygu. What I did not like was that all 3 calves took more than 4 hrs to have their first drink and I ended up intervening since it took so long. Maybe this is because I'm new at this, but i felt like it was too long for the first shot of milk. I also read somewhere that the waygu are slow in the beginning.

Ive got to AI the cows soon and Im not sure what to go with. Here's where I'm at in my research:

Beef shorthorns but not a strain that' the club calf.
Murray greys, but the frame size seems bigger for our land and freezer
Waygu- people will pay more for it
Angus- I could ask the neighbor to use his bull so may be the least expensive
Dexter- another neighbor has some that I may be able to trailer them to

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice
Thanks!

 

[Taurus]

My biggest concerns is that your cows being dairy and in that environment, they may have some trouble to breed back. That said I wouldn't use dexter since the other four breeds seems would be better choices for you. Personally I would give another try for Wagyu but its just me.

 

[Rahe Family Belties]

A Belted Galloway bull would mark them for you and stamp the calves as Beltie. They grow well, marble well with minimal back fat. Beltie beef is also considered to be very healthy as well.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

There are many smaller framed Murray Greys out there. Our herd averages a frame score 4. We have several individuals that are a frame score 3 as well. Murray Greys as a breed have a high prevalence of tenderness and marbling genes. We have had a Guernsey x MG steer, and he grew out exceptionally. I have attached a photo of him. He has had nothing but grass. His steaks were extremely well marbled and tender.

The cows have longevity, raise great calves, and they have good udder attachments. They are also extremely easy keeping. They are fertile and extremely docile. They will graze in many different kinds of terrain. I have seen on multiple occasions, our cow herd grazing along our bluffs. The cow below is pictured at 11 1/2 years of age. She has produced some outstanding calves for us. She is a frame score 3.

Our herd bull is also a frame score 3. He weighed 1,505 lbs at 26 months of age. We tested him with Igenity a few months ago. He was a perfect 10 stars for tenderness and a near perfect 8 stars for marbling. I have attached a photo of him in breeding condition.

When crossed with Angus, they produce exceptional females. We have 3 Murray Grey x Angus cows in our herd. I have attached a photo of one particular cow who was 3 1/2 years old at the time of the photo. Murray Grey calves are very lively at birth, and are up and nursing quite quickly.

 

[cbcr]

Another breed that may be good, and they are dual purpose is Normande. In France, they even have their own label.

 

[phean]

Backbone-WOW those are some beautiful cows!

Tarrus- I would like to switch to an all beef breed, but with the price of cattle I can't this year, but I plan to cull out the cows since Im saving some of the heifers which are 1/2 waygu 1/4 angus and 1/4 jersey.

My AI tech is from ABS Global and had not heard of Mrruay Greys. Ill ask him how it works if its not listed on their site. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Taurus]

Backbone-WOW those are some beautiful cows!

Tarrus- I would like to switch to an all beef breed, but with the price of cattle I can't this year, but I plan to cull out the cows since Im saving some of the heifers which are 1/2 waygu 1/4 angus and 1/4 jersey.

My AI tech is from ABS Global and had not heard of Mrruay Greys. Ill ask him how it works if its not listed on their site. Thanks for all the suggestions.

A 1/4 dairy is better than a full or 1/2 dairy! I would use a Murray grey bull on these 1/2 wagyu to beef up the calves but still tender.

 

[Nesikep]

I think an AI tech should have heard about MG's! And not to take way from the MG recommendation (I think they'd do well for you), Gelbvieh aren't big cattle and finish quite nicely.. I found they make good mothers as well.
Here's a Saler x Gelbvieh cow (2nd calf) with her 3/4 Gelbvieh steer calf.. she's about a frame 5

 

[Lucky_P]

phean,
Since you're limited (or limiting yourself) to the ABS rep., I'd be looking at ABS Angus/Red Angus sires - you can look at epds and pick bulls whose progeny excel in marbling, then look at other features such as WW/YW, MH, CW, $W, $EN, etc.

Additionally, your ABS rep can get any of the bulls at ORIgen - I've used all three of the Waukaru Shorthorn bulls there, and have been really pleased with the results, out of AN & ANxSimAngus cows.
W.Goldmine 2109 is extreme calving ease, but with decent growth; W. Coppertop 464 not a heifer bull, but easy calving and the calves really grow - and daughters should make great cows; still early in the game on W. Gold Card 5042 calves... not many on the ground here, or they're still very young.
Have considered using some Wagyu semen...but haven't pulled the trigger on that deal yet.
ORIgen has a Murray Gray category, but no MG bulls currently listed.

 

[AllForage]

You complained about calves taking too long to drink. Don't be so quick to blame the bull, he is half the equation. Cow nutrition and her genetics could play a big part.

Also I may be wrong but "a little grain" will not bring out the cited benefits of wagyu. They are finished with very high amounts of grain for a long period of time.

Of course this may be fire and ice, but starting with angus/dairy they must be pretty big gals. MG would be a good bet. Not sure why folks limit themselves to one AI supply. Surely there has to be a tech that will receive straws from any source for a few bucks more. Seems to defeat the purpose of AI sticking to one supplier.

 

[WalnutCrest]

You'd do well with MG or Aubrac.

 

[Taurus]

You'd do well with MG or Aubrac.

I think OP will have better luck to finding some MG than Aubrac.

 

[cow pollinater]

Why the focus on niche breeds? If you're looking for marbling you've already got it as jersey, angus and wagyu are all high marbling genetics. You could go back over that cross with any well marbled angus or red angus and be well over what most market calves do as far as marbling is concerned.
If you had a problem with calves getting up and going with wagyu than you need to look on the cow side of things. Those things get up and move from day one and that's a big part of why guys around here use them on heifers.
Also, if you want good service, be a a good customer. ABS doesn't deal in niche markets. They do have genetics that will fit most situations but don't be real surprised if you find yourself without a breeder if you order a niche breed and expect your breeder to come put it in for you. A big part of his pay is the semen sale, especially on deals where he's only breeding a few head.

 

[Lucky_P]

I'll second cp's take; both on your semen rep - and the breeds deal. Why go for a minor/niche breed, when the mainstream breeds will provide what you need - and you don't run the risk of winding up crosswise of of local demand for your endproduct?
We used ABS sires almost exclusively for years - didn't need the rep for arm service, but have been well pleased with the service we get from our rep - and the sire lineup for Angus and Simmental sires is great. Access to the bulls at ORIgen covers most of the 'different' needs we're pursuing...though I'd like to see 'em pick up some Braunvieh sires.
Next door neighbors have used Select Sires bulls almost exclusively for decades. They like the SS sire lineup.
Being 'limited' to one semen supplier doesn't necessarily 'limit' your success or progress - though it may confine your choices to a minor degree.

 

[phean]

thanks for all the advice! A lot of really good points. You all are really helping me increase my knowledge. I talked to a few folks around here and it sounded like there was just one AI tech, but im sure that's not the case. I searched on line for AI techs and did not find anything. Im 60 miles north of San Francisco in a big dairy area. Is there a listing of techs somewhere?

thanks again!

 

[Nesikep]

CP, you do agree it is kinda odd that the guy hasn't even heard of Murray Grays.. though I could understand his company not having semen...

 

[Taurus]

CP hits the nail in head! I completely agreed with what he says.