Newbie needs basic AI info

[Lucky_P]

'Ive said it before, and I'll say it again... I see folks on here talking about having their veterinarian inseminate cows... when I was in practice, I never had time, and never knew any of my large animal veterinary colleagues who had time to be sitting around waiting for John Doe to call them to come inseminate his cow. Maybe times have changed, or those folks aren't as busy as we were, and are 'looking for things to do'.

I haven't lived where there was an 'AI tech' within 150 miles in 30 years. But, if you can find a good one, and you have just four cows... I'd sure go that route.
When we made the decision to incorporate AI into our breeding program, my wife - also a veterinarian - took an AI course through the local community college & regional university's Ag school.
I'm unaware of any veterinary college teaching AI... yeah, we learn the basics of anatomy, reproductive physiology and such, but to my knowledge, none of the veterinary colleges are teaching AI to their students... there's too much basic sciences, medicine & surgery training to cram into 4 short years to dedicate anything more than just a cursory overview, if that much, to AI.

Then, there's the 'practice' aspect. First year out... we got about a 30% pregnancy rate on our AI services(but this also included a short(and abysmal) dalliance with timed AI), but as she did more and more (and our nutrition program bot better), she got better... she ended up routinely getting 85-90% pregnancies to a single AI service.

As others have mentioned, you will need to purchase a tank, and keep it serviced year-round. Some bull studs will sell semen in as little as 5-straw lots, but most are gonna require a minimum 10-straw purchase of any particular bull.
And... even when all the stars align perfectly, you're not going to always get 100% pregnancy rates... we always had a cleanup bull to service the cows that didn't 'stick' on AI... and to breed the cows that weren't candidates for AI service to begin with.

 

[gruncattle]

Howdy everyone, I don't really want to buy a bull to keep four mamas happy, so I've been thinking of buying straws and having them AI'd. Of course I know next to nothing about the subject. Our Vet says it's a dicey proposition, maybe 50% success rate, and seemed to advise against it.

Inot adverse to buying a bull and keeping him a few months to enjoy himself at our place and then selling him.

Some questions:

how many straws should I purchase?
how many will a vet need to do the job?
In your opinion and experience, should I drop a couple grand on a nice bull and then resell him?

Any other suggestions or sage advice? Many thanks!

You are looking at this in a smart way. Bulls have to be dealt with including separating them from heifers and having them get bored and tear stuff up. Still, you should look at a strategy that is AI + something else.

Depending on the breed, straws can cost anywhere from $30 to $300 a straw. You'll want to use two straws. A full service facility will offer storage as well as AI services (and classes). We leave ours for the full stay which is about $120 plus $7 a day for feed/board. All in less than $300 (plus the straws)

I'd selectively AI looking to achieve something in your herd. Then, lease a bull for 90 days to not only clean-up those where the AI did not take but also for the rest of your herd. We do this. Our AI rate (in cooler weather) is about 75% and the bull I have on property right now I got for $400 for 90 days. I AI'd 4 this year focusing on two different bulls and the cover bull. We hope to get 1 heifer from each of the two bulls. Unlucky we'll get zero. Lucky we'll get 3-4. Hiefer sexed straws drive the cost up considerably. With the clean-up bull on property, everyone will be bred. $400 for the bull + $300 on AI + straws. . . .I'll take that any day versus have a bull on site 365 days a year.

 

[Dsth]

gruncattle, please clarify your statement on "you'll want to use two straws." Do you use two straws on your first service, breed using the second straw 12 - 18 hours after first service, or is the second to have on hand in case she comes back in heat?

 

[gruncattle]

gruncattle, please clarify your statement on "you'll want to use two straws." Do you use two straws on your first service, breed using the second straw 12 - 18 hours after first service, or is the second to have on hand in case she comes back in heat?

the later. The second straw is 12-18 after.

 

[Farmgirl]

OP,
Reach out to Champion Genetics in Canton, TX.
We've been doing all AI for 15 years. Last year 6 cows took 7 services. Cost is $125-175 per pregnancy. Do the heat detection and syncing ourselves. Take to the vet when in heat. Only use 1 straw.

AI can work but it takes some work. Reach out to someone in the business to teach you the ropes. You'll probably have to pay someone to help you until you learn it. I don't mean do the AI yourself but learn how to watch for heats and setup the syncs. knowing how to do those things can same you a bunch of money and time.

Good luck.

 

[gruncattle]

OP,
Reach out to Champion Genetics in Canton, TX.
We've been doing all AI for 15 years. Last year 6 cows took 7 services. Cost is $125-175 per pregnancy. Do the heat detection and syncing ourselves. Take to the vet when in heat. Only use 1 straw.

AI can work but it takes some work. Reach out to someone in the business to teach you the ropes. You'll probably have to pay someone to help you until you learn it. I don't mean do the AI yourself but learn how to watch for heats and setup the syncs. knowing how to do those things can same you a bunch of money and time.

Good luck.

Ironically, that is where we've gone for the last 5 years. For storage and AI services Champion is great! Point noted on the single straw approach.

 

[Son of Butch]

Howdy everyone, I don't really want to buy a bull to keep four mamas happy,
so I've been thinking of having them AI'd.
Of course I know next to nothing about the subject.

Any other suggestions or sage advice? Many thanks!

May I ask.... What is the end goal of having 4 cows?

If it's to make use of some pasture and produce freezer beef, then it strikes me that spending 175-$200+ just to put a live calf on the ground is a poor choice.

I'd suggest butchering the youngest cow and selling the other 3 and buying 4-8 steers weighing 600 lbs to background on the pasture and or feed them out.

 

[wbvs58]

May I ask.... What is the end goal of having 4 cows?

If it's to make use of some pasture and produce freezer beef, then it strikes me that spending 175-$200+ just to put a live calf on the ground is a poor choice.

I'd suggest butchering the youngest cow and selling the other 3 and buying 4-8 steers weighing 600 lbs to background on the pasture and or feed them out.

Very practical Butch but people like to look forward to the babies comin, I do.

Ken

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Your vet says 50% success rate?? Keep away from that vet! I know of a medium sized Hereford operation that for more than 10 years never owned a bull and AI'd everything because they wanted to improve their herd as quickly as possible. One big thing I know - don't move the females around during the process. Keep them as stress free as possible.

The semen companies can help you when you want to get started.

A vet in my area said the same thing about the 50%.. He also in a cattle man. 300 head or so. He uses bulls. He also leaes the bulls out sometimes to me at 30 bucks a shot.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Howdy everyone, I don't really want to buy a bull to keep four mamas happy, so I've been thinking of buying straws and having them AI'd. Of course I know next to nothing about the subject. Our Vet says it's a dicey proposition, maybe 50% success rate, and seemed to advise against it.

Inot adverse to buying a bull and keeping him a few months to enjoy himself at our place and then selling him.

Some questions:

how many straws should I purchase?
how many will a vet need to do the job?
In your opinion and experience, should I drop a couple grand on a nice bull and then resell him?

Any other suggestions or sage advice? Many thanks!

Not sure where you are located, and if this would be feasible for you, but in my area I have managed to borrow a bull for two months in the summer and then again in the winter. Different bulls. I have mostly black angus girls with a few british whites/angus crosses thrown in. I am just making beef and on a very small scale. My brood herd is ten animals. The first time you borrow a bull is the hardest, but once word gets out that you can be trusted with their animal, it gets easier.

Of course sometimes, you have to take the bull at not the most perfect time. This year we brought him in June 18th which puts calves on the ground latish March, which in NH can be problematic if you're not set up for inclement weather calvin' But,.. beggars can't be choosers sometimes. Like me this year.

I am finding the fall calves are easier, but sometimes the summer bull doesn't get em all, and that is why we have the Christmas clean up bull. We had a great Red Angus bull (Sonny) but I think the owner might move him along.

 

[TominTX]

In the same boat here. My first thoughts are to lease a bull for 60 days. Interested to see what experienced folks think.

I have some experience here. When I started out, I had 21 2 year old heifers. I rented a bull for 60 days. The bull was vet checked and healthy. Towards the end of the 60 days I called the guy I had rented from (he was reputable, and had supplied several neighbors with both cows and bulls.) I told him that I had not noticed much action and he told me to go ahead and keep him an extra couple of weeks.

At about the 80 day point, I returned the bull and hoped for the best. I only had about a 60% calf crop that year. Not really sure what happened. The next year, the neighbors bull jumped the fence and the neighbor (who's cows were all heavy bred) asked me if I minded keeping him for a month or two. I of course obliged him. Then, when the bull when home, I forked out the cash and purchased a young one one and turned him in as a clean up bull that year. We had I had 1 cow that didn't get bred and one that lost the calf during her first calving. 19 healthy...

If you're running 5 or 6 cows or less. Renting is probably a good idea, but maybe ask if you can keep him a little longer and preg. check them quickly after you return the bull... If it's more than that, it's worth buying.

 

[coachg]

Howdy everyone, I don't really want to buy a bull to keep four mamas happy, so I've been thinking of buying straws and having them AI'd. Of course I know next to nothing about the subject. Our Vet says it's a dicey proposition, maybe 50% success rate, and seemed to advise against it.

Inot adverse to buying a bull and keeping him a few months to enjoy himself at our place and then selling him.

Some questions:

how many straws should I purchase?
how many will a vet need to do the job?
In your opinion and experience, should I drop a couple grand on a nice bull and then resell him?

Any other suggestions or sage advice? Many thanks!

If you have the facilities to work your cows AI is the ticket . Top bulls , you can even get sexed semen . If not you might find someone who rents bulls . Do not put your cows in with a neighbors! Last resort but a younger breeding age bull, use , and possibly you can sell .

 

[cjhames]

I greatly appreciate everyone's replies. We had the good fortune to be able to buy 15 more acres since I put up this post, and recent world events (and US Senators proclaiming we will face a global famine in the next two years) made the decision to get a bull much easier.

We now have the room, extra facilities and more importantly grass. I just feel better knowing we can reproduce what we need to take care of our family. Self sufficiency is important to us.

We have a friend with a dairy in DeKalb that we have been buying bottle calves from for years. We pay a bit more for them perhaps, but we know they have received colostrum and their shots before we take them. We've never lost one and I can't remember the last time we bought a set that even got scours. Quality stock.

Anyway, Dirk has been telling me about these Montebelliard bull calves he has. He breeds them to his holstein cows, along with angus bulls. Also has some jersey cows. So I looked into the Montys and liked what I saw. Dual purpose breed, helps mamas make great milk, cheese and their beef is supposed to be terrific. Great feet and udders. And for $100 …. well sure, lets see what we can do with him.

He is extremely gentle. 8 months old now and never been sick a moment. Need to get him weighed. Bought two from Dirk, steered one.

Anyone ever had any experience with Montebelliards?