Newbie is feeding grain; how much?

[ny_grass]

I think the withdrawal on my ivermec is 45 days. You just pour the right amount on their back. You can do it while they are eating.

With the other feeding type wormer, you have to be sure that they all get some and in the proper amounts.

Great! The reasonable withdrawl time, the fact that it's so easy to apply accurately, that it doesn't violate a "natural" label, and everyone's (near unanimous) support means that I'm going to apply it tomorrow. Thanks much.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Great! The reasonable withdrawl time, the fact that it's so easy to apply accurately, that it doesn't violate a "natural" label, and everyone's (near unanimous) support means that I'm going to apply it tomorrow. Thanks much.

Most 'drenches' are ingested/poured down the throat.

The pour-on, just pour on their backs.

Nice to see a newbie actually taking the good advice given, so many do not, many argue about it.

Good job, keep it up, and good luck.

Katherine

 

[SRBeef]

I had one of those Behlen feed troughs...I think I paid $70 at auction...our cows tore the thing up in a few months...they constantly tossed it around the yard, stood in it ect...had to reinforce the tub with screws to the frame and finally the frame was broken into pieces, now it is just a piece of junk.

The Behlen is just a relatively low cost temporary feeder. I did drill a couple more 3/8" or so dia drain holes in the four corners of the plastic trough so water would drain better after a rain.

It is important to have enough trough space (I think I read 18" per head minimum - probably 24" is better) of whatever kind or they will be pushing and shoving and some not eating enough.

My primary feed trough is the Weiser fence line trough. I use the Behlen for additional space when needed or for calves as shown above. Cows have actually stood in the Behlen plastic trough and not broken it - yet. I was surprised. But it is not a permanent full time feed trough. For that you need to go concrete, solid steel or a well built wooden such as in the Canada plan above. I was suggesting it as a low cost and quick alternative to 6" boards on the ground. I think it is good to have a portable one around.

I also use the Behlen to get them to a different area of the pasture when I want them to move and spread some manure somewhere. I hook it behind the 4 wheeler to move it.

On the fenceline trough, it has a cable to keep them from tossing there heads - and feed out of the trough. I also found young calves during the summer would climb in the trough and out the back into another pasture where they were not supposed to be. Then added some cattle panel behind the trough and slipped some old plywood in to cut sight lines when working them.

Concrete is the way to go long term for feed troughs, in my opinion. But you have to have enough length.

 

[jedstivers]

Get those cows in that shelter in the bad weather, have plenty of good hay, calves off, more feed. Get them wormed and don't worry about "natural" they are naturally suffering, throw everything you can to their care. A stockman or sheppard puts the care of their animals first. You have been listening to some real good advice so I think you are trying but with a animal you have to get it done. And on the feed bunk do you have two more 6" boards to make 18" wide?

 

[KNERSIE]

Do the cows get enough roughage to fill them? The grain will help, but you still need to fill the rumen and to stretch it to stimulate rumen activity. To me the cow looks rather gaunt and not filled at all.

 

[ny_grass]

Do the cows get enough roughage to fill them? The grain will help, but you still need to fill the rumen and to stretch it to stimulate rumen activity. To me the cow looks rather gaunt and not filled at all.

They get 10 50lbs bales a day. I'm thinking that I'm going to bump that up to 12 (6 morn, 6 night). Hard to believe that they are going through that much but I think a fair amount is being wasted to (my hay "feeder" leaves something to be desired).

 

[SRBeef]

the Behlen looks like a stretched bathtub, in a pinch, if you can find a coupe old bathtubs laying around it might do the trick, we scavenge every old bathtub we find to use as waterers

Here's a link to a discussion about calves falling into round-bottom or bath tub troughs:

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread ... 12#M536012

Be careful.

 

[ny_grass]

Rahter then screwing aorund with things you don;t know the affect of, why not take a fecal to the vet and have it checked for worms and maybe coccidiosis as long as it's being done. Why not find out what the requirements are for "natural" the way/place you plan on marketing? That at least would give you the informaiton in black and white what is allowed and what isn;t. Check a jug of ivomec and see what the withdrawl period is. Different manufacturers variations may have different withdrawls

So I got the results back from the vet today. They detected round worm, flat worm and coccidiosis. They said that ivomec will take care of the first 2 but the coccidiosis requires something else.

What do people use for coccidiosis? This doc talks about it being very serious (http://osuextra.okstate.edu/pdfs/F-9129web.pdf) and gives a number of treatment options.

So here's what I plan on doing:
- I'll pour on the ivomec tonight
- I'll wait to hear what people say about the coccidiosis. I think the typical med is corid. I don't yet know how it's administered. I'm probably limited to what I can give to them in their feed or, of course, as a pour-on (or, are drenches easy to give - perhaps they might taste good and the cows will let you "feed" it to them out of that drench gun?).

I'm especially interested in whether this requires that they'll need to be moved to a new location (since the document says that the eggs will remain viable for years in wet, shady conditions). The cows are soon going to go to the new structure but the I'd planned on leaving the calves in the present location.

I'll keep reading.

Thanks

 

[ny_grass]

I guess I should say that I haven't seen any sign of a) blood in the stools or b) loss of appetite.

I'd love to be able to give you some numbers but the vet didn't want to give me any information; they told me what they had and to call my vet. I'm going to call back tomorrow and have them send me the report.

 

[dun]

The most frequent used treatment for coccidiosis around here is Corid. But there is one vet that claims that it causes some kind of problems if used very long. I don;t know what the problem is though

 

[KMacGinley]

You could have them mix rumensin or Bovatec with the grain.

 

[KMacGinley]

Do you by any chance have chickens running around there loose? Can be spread by sparrows also.

 

[donnaIL]

I'm probably limited to what I can give to them in their feed or, of course, as a pour-on (or, are drenches easy to give - perhaps they might taste good and the cows will let you "feed" it to them out of that drench gun?).

If you have to administer a vacination, you could make home made chute (a couple poles with some cattle panels and a gate, bate it with grain, then you would have them confined. Before we had our chute, we squeezed them against a wall with a gate and tied it off...however that is hard work and could be dangerous. Also you could load them up and take them to a vet that has facilities, we have done that also (not for shots, other stuff). I'm surprised the vet that gave you the test results did not give you the meds.

My experience with vets around here is they either want you to bring the animal to them...or will give you the meds and let you take care of it. Our vet does make farm calls, but has never come to our farm or indicated they would. They have never asked if I have handling facilities and assume that most "small farms", like us, dont (we do). So they don't want to go do the rodeo..

Good Luck.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I'm surprised the vet that gave you the test results did not give you the meds.

I'm thinking the man took the samples to the local vet clinic (sm. animal). Therefore, they tild him to get in touch with his vet (large animal).

The corid works well. I have not used it long-term, so am not familiar with any problems related to long-term use. Had 2 calves once that needed it. I used the pellets. It also comes in a form that is added to their drinking water. I preferred the pellets, as I was able to be sure each animal recieved the correct dosage.

Get yourself a good loose mineral for those cows as well. Check with your local feed dealer, up there in NY that might be Agway. Find a mix/blend designed for your area. It will help those cows with their nutritional needs, and they will utilize whats in their hay and feed more readily.

Katherine

 

[Brute 23]

Been avoiding the other thread - but pic number two on this thread bothers me - she missing a big patch of hair on her @ss?

Bez+

I believe that is cow chit. ;-)



IF you are that worried about them, just my opinion, worm them real good and drop a self feeder out there. There are some good feed mixes that are around 15% and depending on how much salt is in it you can get them to eat around #5 a day. Just throwing another idea out there, have ZERO expereince with snow so that may not work.

 

[ny_grass]

Been avoiding the other thread - but pic number two on this thread bothers me - she missing a big patch of hair on her @ss?

Bez+

I believe that is cow chit. ;-)



IF you are that worried about them, just my opinion, worm them real good and drop a self feeder out there. There are some good feed mixes that are around 15% and depending on how much salt is in it you can get them to eat around #5 a day. Just throwing another idea out there, have ZERO expereince with snow so that may not work.

Yeah, it's chit or mud. I've been using the feeder I made. So far I haven't had any problems. They don't seem to be wasting too much yet. The sure like that grain!

 

[ny_grass]

I'm surprised the vet that gave you the test results did not give you the meds.

I'm thinking the man took the samples to the local vet clinic (sm. animal). Therefore, they tild him to get in touch with his vet (large animal).

The corid works well. I have not used it long-term, so am not familiar with any problems related to long-term use. Had 2 calves once that needed it. I used the pellets. It also comes in a form that is added to their drinking water. I preferred the pellets, as I was able to be sure each animal recieved the correct dosage.

Get yourself a good loose mineral for those cows as well. Check with your local feed dealer, up there in NY that might be Agway. Find a mix/blend designed for your area. It will help those cows with their nutritional needs, and they will utilize whats in their hay and feed more readily.

Katherine

I picked up the Ivomec from the tractor supply just now. They were out of corid. I'll stop by another local coop tomorrow and see if they have it. At the tractor supply I ran into a farmer (he was getting some wormer so I pelted him with a bunch of questions ;-). He seems to think that Coccidiosis is VERY serious.
I'll get the corid tomorrow and get them started on it but could someone chime in as to how serious this is?

The vet didn't seem especially concerned.

 

[SRBeef]

My experience with vets around here is they either want you to bring the animal to them...or will give you the meds and let you take care of it. Our vet does make farm calls, but has never come to our farm or indicated they would. They have never asked if I have handling facilities and assume that most "small farms", like us, dont (we do). So they don't want to go do the rodeo..

Most vets in my area have their own squeeze chute on a trailer they can bring along if needed but you still need a corral and some way to get them down to single file with a place where the vet can back his chute in from the road.

You bring up a good point and another reason to have some sort of workable handling facility - Vets don't like rodeos, they are not cowboys. The easier and safer it is to handle them at your place, either with or without the vets chute, the more inclined they are to want to come to your place when needed.

It a whole lot easier for the vet to drive to me rather than to hook up the trailer, load up a possibly sick animal and haul both of us to the vet. And you still need some sort of corral and loading chute or ramp to safely (for you) get them in a trailer. A some sort of workable handling facility is worth its weight in gold.

 

[terra8186]

He seems to think that Coccidiosis is VERY serious.
I'll get the corid tomorrow and get them started on it but could someone chime in as to how serious this is?

Someone on the board recommend this book and I am recommending it to you. Keeping Livestock Healthy by Bruce Haynes. It has 2 pages about Coccidiosis. It says that it is spread through indigestion of manure from infected animals. It would probably be a good idea to raise your feeders off the ground. It also says that it kills 10 percent of infected calves. "Mature animals although commonly infected, usually have developed sufficient immunity that clinical signs do not develop. They periodically shed oocysts, and are probably the source of infection for younger generations on the farm. "

Symptoms are profuse often bloody diarrhea. I hope this helps

 

[ny_grass]

My experience with vets around here is they either want you to bring the animal to them...or will give you the meds and let you take care of it. Our vet does make farm calls, but has never come to our farm or indicated they would. They have never asked if I have handling facilities and assume that most "small farms", like us, dont (we do). So they don't want to go do the rodeo..

Most vets in my area have their own squeeze chute on a trailer they can bring along if needed but you still need a corral and some way to get them down to single file with a place where the vet can back his chute in from the road.

You bring up a good point and another reason to have some sort of workable handling facility - Vets don't like rodeos, they are not cowboys. The easier and safer it is to handle them at your place, either with or without the vets chute, the more inclined they are to want to come to your place when needed.

It a whole lot easier for the vet to drive to me rather than to hook up the trailer, load up a possibly sick animal and haul both of us to the vet. And you still need some sort of corral and loading chute or ramp to safely (for you) get them in a trailer. A some sort of workable handling facility is worth its weight in gold.

I can see that a handling facility is beyond necessary (especially if you do cow/calf). I'm still a little ways from having mine finished; the crowd pen (if that's what it's called) and the chute is done; need to sink two posts, mount the 2 gates, put some locking handles on, install the head gate at the end and put some fencing up around it. About 2 months at the pace I'm going ;-) I'll be castrating the bulls at age 8 months! (I worked as a teacher once; everyone told me that year 1 was the worst; developing lesson plans, setting up systems; just like the knowledge and infrastructure needed to not completely screw up with cattle (he says while still in the build out phase).