New To The Cattle Business

[coalcreekfarms10]

Hello everyone. I am new to the cattle world and have a lot to learn quickly. So, please don't think any less of me when I ask these questions as I am just trying to get my feet wet in the cattle business.

1. What are replacement and commercial heifers? Like what are the differences and advantage/disadvantage of each.
2. When people talk about working calves and they are giving them shots, what kind of shots are they giving them exactly?
3. Is it better to wean a calf based on age or weight? I guess what I am asking is how do you know when the best time is to wean a calf that you are going to sell?
4. When you do wean a calf what is the best feed to feed them so they will still gain weight before going to market?

I think this is all I have for now but I am sure there will be many more soon. If there is any links or websites you have to help a beginner out please don't hesitate to send them my way.

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Hello everyone. I am new to the cattle world and have a lot to learn quickly. So, please don't think any less of me when I ask these questions as I am just trying to get my feet wet in the cattle business.

1. What are replacement and commercial heifers? Like what are the differences and advantage/disadvantage of each. Replacement heifers are heifers that are typically raised/bought to replace older cows in the herd and become brood cows. Commercial heifers are heifers that are not registered.
2. When people talk about working calves and they are giving them shots, what kind of shots are they giving them exactly?Working calves can include tagging, castrating, vaccinating, worming, etc
3. Is it better to wean a calf based on age or weight? I guess what I am asking is how do you know when the best time is to wean a calf that you are going to sell?Depends on several factors. Price, availability of feed, condition of momma cow are a few
4. When you do wean a calf what is the best feed to feed them so they will still gain weight before going to market?if you're gonna feed them before taking them to the sale barn you need to feed them good quality hay and a balanced feed. I usually feed a ration of around 12-15% protein and 4% fat

I think this is all I have for now but I am sure there will be many more soon. If there is any links or websites you have to help a beginner out please don't hesitate to send them my way.

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

I'm no expert but maybe this will help you. Google some of this stuff. The Internet is your friend and there's a ton of information out there.

 

[js1234]

Good answers to very reasonable questions. There a some guys around here who know this business pretty good and I'm sure will give you lots of insight. Good luck on your new adventure.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

So are replacement heifers better than commercial heifers?

 

[TCRanch]

So are replacement heifers better than commercial heifers?

Replacement heifers can be either commercial or registered. "Replacement" basically means heifers replacing older, ornery or cull cows. Our bulls are registered but our herd is not so they are commercial. We retain our own heifers as replacements.

 

[cow pollinater]

So are replacement heifers better than commercial heifers?

The difference is just terminology. Replacement just means they're prospective breeders. Commercial means their not registered. Commercial heifers may make nice replacements and replacements may make nice commercials. :lol: Just keep in mind that just because someone says they're replacement quality doesn't mean they're going to be a good fit for you as a cow.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

So are replacement heifers better than commercial heifers?

The difference is just terminology. Replacement just means they're prospective breeders. Commercial means their not registered. Commercial heifers may make nice replacements and replacements may make nice commercials. :lol: Just keep in mind that just because someone says they're replacement quality doesn't mean they're going to be a good fit for you as a cow.

Thanks for the help. I hate to keep asking questions but I have always been told that there is no stupid question except ones you don't ask.

 

[Alan]

Just to add on replacement heifers, my goal is to improve my herd, so if I have feed and room for more cows I will keep the best heifer I can raise or afford to buy. I also breed to the best bull I can afford to buy to help improve the quality of calves I get. Over the next couple of years you may want to learn as much as you can on conformation, milking ability and qualities and faults of your specific breed/breeds of cattle you desire.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

Just to add on replacement heifers, my goal is to improve my herd, so if I have feed and room for more cows I will keep the best heifer I can raise or afford to buy. I also breed to the best bull I can afford to buy to help improve the quality of calves I get. Over the next couple of years you may want to learn as much as you can on conformation, milking ability and qualities and faults of your specific breed/breeds of cattle you desire.

How exactly do I go about doing that? I want to raise black angus and already have a few to start out with.

 

[cow pollinater]

1. What are replacement and commercial heifers? Like what are the differences and advantage/disadvantage of each.

I would recommend avoiding both. Right now you can buy older proven cows for about what a heifer is worth and avoid a lot of problems until you get more experience. Older cows will likely do their job without as much help from you and you get to watch and learn.

2. When people talk about working calves and they are giving them shots, what kind of shots are they giving them exactly?

Your vet would be a good place to start that discussion as some problems are more of a factor in certain parts of the country. A killed virus clostridial and a viral is a good starting place. Wormer may or may not be needed depending on where you are. castration and de-horning should be done for sure. Implants at least on the steers are something you might want to consider.

3. Is it better to wean a calf based on age or weight? I guess what I am asking is how do you know when the best time is to wean a calf that you are going to sell?

The best time to wean is when it's time to wean. ;-) If your feed is running low you'll want to get the calves off the cow so she can recover for the next calf. There is a price slide where heavier calves bring less per pound so there is not much advantage to holding a calf beyond the high growth stage. I have one set that will get weaned shortly if it doesn't rain here real quick but another set that can stay all summer as the feed is still good where they are. There are a lot of factors to weaning a calf. The only real end limit is forty five days before she's due to calve again.

4. When you do wean a calf what is the best feed to feed them so they will still gain weight before going to market?

Whatever you can do that gets them on feed right away is good. If they're coming off of green grass then green grass is a good start as they're used to it. When I was in CA I used oat hay with molasses over the top as the calves came off of dry native pasture. Full bellies solve lots of problems. Be careful to not spend to much chasing pounds though. Over-conditioned calves won't bring what a weaned calf will and in the market we're in it is entirely possible to lose money using grain to add weight.
Your goal is to sell a 30 plus day weaned calf with vaccination that is healthy and in condition to pack on pounds for someone else.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

1. What are replacement and commercial heifers? Like what are the differences and advantage/disadvantage of each.

I would recommend avoiding both. Right now you can buy older proven cows for about what a heifer is worth and avoid a lot of problems until you get more experience. Older cows will likely do their job without as much help from you and you get to watch and learn.

2. When people talk about working calves and they are giving them shots, what kind of shots are they giving them exactly?

Your vet would be a good place to start that discussion as some problems are more of a factor in certain parts of the country. A killed virus clostridial and a viral is a good starting place. Wormer may or may not be needed depending on where you are. castration and de-horning should be done for sure. Implants at least on the steers are something you might want to consider.

3. Is it better to wean a calf based on age or weight? I guess what I am asking is how do you know when the best time is to wean a calf that you are going to sell?

The best time to wean is when it's time to wean. ;-) If your feed is running low you'll want to get the calves off the cow so she can recover for the next calf. There is a price slide where heavier calves bring less per pound so there is not much advantage to holding a calf beyond the high growth stage. I have one set that will get weaned shortly if it doesn't rain here real quick but another set that can stay all summer as the feed is still good where they are. There are a lot of factors to weaning a calf. The only real end limit is forty five days before she's due to calve again.

4. When you do wean a calf what is the best feed to feed them so they will still gain weight before going to market?

Whatever you can do that gets them on feed right away is good. If they're coming off of green grass then green grass is a good start as they're used to it. When I was in CA I used oat hay with molasses over the top as the calves came off of dry native pasture. Full bellies solve lots of problems. Be careful to not spend to much chasing pounds though. Over-conditioned calves won't bring what a weaned calf will and in the market we're in it is entirely possible to lose money using grain to add weight.
Your goal is to sell a 30 plus day weaned calf with vaccination that is healthy and in condition to pack on pounds for someone else.

Thanks for all the advice. I have one question. You said a calf that is conditioned to pack on pounds for someone else. How do I know that?

 

[Alan]

Just to add on replacement heifers, my goal is to improve my herd, so if I have feed and room for more cows I will keep the best heifer I can raise or afford to buy. I also breed to the best bull I can afford to buy to help improve the quality of calves I get. Over the next couple of years you may want to learn as much as you can on conformation, milking ability and qualities and faults of your specific breed/breeds of cattle you desire.

How exactly do I go about doing that? I want to raise black angus and already have a few to start out with.

Simply ask questions here and use the search feature here also, no question is considered dumb, imo. My :2cents: on Angus in a nut shell is good mothers, some can be skittish (for me it's a reason to cull). Most cow are very good milkers and raise a good calf. Some can have a disposition problem. Since I mentioned disposition I'll add I run polled Hereford and cover them with a Black Angus bull. I have only had one BA bull that warranted extra attention by me, I have had more than one Hereford I watched closely and they a known for a good disposition. I also cull for disposition, too many good ones out there to risk having a bad one.

Be sure to ask anything, most cattle minds here are far better than mine.

Alan

 

[cow pollinater]

Thanks for all the advice. I have one question. You said a calf that is conditioned to pack on pounds for someone else. How do I know that?

Fat comes and goes. Your potential buyer doesn't want to pay $2.00 per pound for fat. When you wean your first set of calves, watch how they change during the process. They'll have some milk fat on them that will melt off as their diet changes and they adjust to their new ration. You want to sell them before they start fleshing back up to much. You can put some weight on them but don't waste your time and money trying to get them greasy fat.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

I thought about getting into some Herefords but I know they don't sell like black angus does at market. I really like both breeds but I just picked angus. What exactly do you mean when you say disposition? Are you talking about the looks and features as far as muscular and things like that?

 

[Alan]

I thought about getting into some Herefords but I know they don't sell like black angus does at market. I really like both breeds but I just picked angus. What exactly do you mean when you say disposition? Are you talking about the looks and features as far as muscular and things like that?

Disposition is temperament, are they mean, dangerous or flighty (flighty, high headed, meaning they see you coming and will turn a bolt to the far side of the pasture or further, maybe over a panel in the working pen.)

Phenotype is frame/bone structure, muscling, looks like a bull or cow (masculine or feminine), udder, both attachment and teat size and shape, legs, feet, etc.

One more you didn't ask for frame size. Frame size is the height and weight of the animal. My thinking is it is better to have a medium sized cow that raises a nice calf, say weans at 550 to 600 lbs. in a nut shell I would rather feed and maintain a 1000 to 1200 lbs cow that raises that type of calf then feed and maintain a 1800 lbs cow that raises the same size calf. It goes deeper than that but that is pretty much the basics and strictly my opinion.

 

[coalcreekfarms10]

When you say weans at 550 to 600 how exactly do you know when to wean it? I guess my head is spinning with all this stuff but I'm just trying to understand. I agree with what you said about raising a smaller cow that raises just as good of a calf.

 

[NECowboy]

I also breed to the best bull I can afford to buy to help improve the quality of calves I get.

AI using bull semen from $$ bulls that you cannot afford to buy if you do not have a lot of cattle and are just getting started. Bull prices can get pretty crazy, it's a bunch of bull! :lol:

 

[Alan]

When you say weans at 550 to 600 how exactly do you know when to wean it? I guess my head is spinning with all this stuff but I'm just trying to understand. I agree with what you said about raising a smaller cow that raises just as good of a calf.

I wean around 200 days and the weaning calf can weigh anywhere from 300 to 650. The weight or size in comparison to the other calves lets me know how the cow did (milk production). Milk production is only one factor in weaning weight, there also growth rate or maturing rate. Growth rate is a hereditary trait, meaning passed on to the calf by the cow or bull.... Another reason to cull.

I will say I started out with cattle about 15 years ago, although I worked a dairy through my school years during summers. As I was increasing my herd the only thing I culled for was temperament/mean or flighty, the rest of the heifer I kept and picked up the best bull I could. Once I reached close to my herd maximum I culled for other factors, age, weaning weights, udder shape etc.

Good luck and I hope others chime in, I gained most of my knowledge though my years here, but there are far more knowledgeable folk here than myself. I was lucky enough to get advice and beaten up by some great cattle minds that have come and gone through the years.

 

[Alan]

I also breed to the best bull I can afford to buy to help improve the quality of calves I get.

AI using bull semen from $$ bulls that you cannot afford to buy if you do not have a lot of cattle and are just getting started. Bull prices can get pretty crazy, it's a bunch of bull! :lol:

Agree 100%, I AI my cattle for several years, improved my herd quicker than anything else. But I still ran a clean up bull. But you can have your cows AI'd and have them preg checked in a couple of weeks. I AI'd my cattle one heat cycle and waited 2 weeks and turned in the clean up bull, I was happy if I got 60% AI calves and 40% clean up bull calves. Also bull were a lot more affordable in those days.

 

[boondocks]

:welcome:

I've only been at the cow thing a few years. You will find a lot of helpful people on here (and a few cranky misanthropes, but oh well). ;-)

One of the best things I did was to read Storey's Guide to Raising Beef Cattle, and The Cattle Health Handbook, both by Heather Smith Thomas (a lifelong cattlewoman).

Take it slow while you learn the ropes. Have good fences; a viable way to catch and treat your cows; and a good relationship with your large animal vet. Buy cows that will work well in your environment, and don't put up with bad temperaments. (As near-newbies, that is our #1 rule).