New to Cattle Today and Cattle in General

[Travlr]

I really wish the Ag Extension agent or my vet would have told me that I would need to subdivide the pasture. We talked about having to do that for goats and sheep but not cows. I don't really want to do that. I have one area where a water trough can easily go. I don't have a natural water source and I have a tree canopy right down the middle of the pasture. I am planning to feed with hay through the winter, and actually already started supplementing. What happens if I don't have at least four places to move them around? I have already had them in the same pasture for six weeks. Am I hurting them? I understand why it's best to let my yearling have a calf but I could not sell it. Then I would have three cows in a bad set up. I appreciate you all sharing your knowledge with me. I am now thinking I didn't do enough research ahead of time.

How much pasture do you have and what kind of quality is the forage on it? A section (640 acres) of sand would support less cattle than ten acres of lush grass. Pasture rotation is about maximizing the number of animals you can feed in an area. If you aren't trying to feed as many animals as you can to make money from an investment then you may be fine without crossfencing.

One of the rookie mistakes people make, especially if they see their cattle as pets, is to overfeed them. If they have decent grass to eat they will be fine without supplements, and probably healthier.

And if you aren't trying to support your cattle with the money you make from calves, then don't breed your heifer. In fact you might want to get her spayed so she doesn't go through continuous heat cycles.

I like cattle but don't see them as pets. I doubt many people here do. I don't know of anyone here that isn't treating their animals as a serious investment unless they are kids that have animals they are showing and they have been given them.

 

[farmerjan]

I am curious why you needed cattle to be pets???? And why a 4 acre place if you are not intending to have a more sustainable lifestyle, and be more self sufficient and raise some of your own food? Or have horses that you like to ride ? Sounds like it may have been a "horse farm" if there is an arena.
Understand also that cattle seldom live to 20.... some breeds are more likely to live longer, longhorns and brahma type cattle are know for being longer lived and productive into their teens. Plus, the 8 year old will be long gone before the young heifer..
Cattle do not get their feelings hurt if you call them elderly or stout or fat or anything... they cannot discern the meaning of words like that. If you cuss them in a nice sweet tone of voice they won't get their feelings hurt...It is the tone not the actual words they learn to respond to. They do learn some words... but they learn tone of voice more than anything.

I agree about getting the heifer spayed if you intend to keep her. Constant heats will be a pain to deal with and she can go from being sweet and nice to a raging bi#@h... and they can and will jump fences and go looking for a bull and become a problem... the old cow may not be cycling anymore.

For most of us, cattle are a way of life and a business. They have to help to pay their own way. There are most of us that have had one or two that had lived out their life and been buried on the farm... but they have made a contribution along the way. They are well taken care of, fed and any all vet work they need, but they are not there just to be a pet.

 

[jshep]

I will have the same problem but l have about 14 acres of pasture and it will be had to subdivide due to the lack of water. I may have the water fix after l buy the the watering post water system but it is different type water system and we do have goats. Farmers are a different breed because we do have a LOT of problems that come up that we have to figure out and learn on the fly . Good luck do not give up farmers are the backbone of the world!

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

A dairy doe goat or wether makes a much better pet than a cow and can be kept on a small acreage. Their intelligence and personality is far beyound that of a bovine. Avoid intact bucks, they stink and are aggressive. You need good fences because they are escape artists.

 

[wobbie1775]

Don't be discouraged by people questioning your life decisions. You came for advice about X and receive life advice about Y and Z etc. Its a pretty common practice on these forums...

If you get some poly wire and a charger you can fence them in/out as you wish. I would say there is probably no real "danger" in keeping them on ground too small or giving them access to everything... But It will require you to feed them more (hay to make up for the lack of grass) and probably (eventually) it will be a grassless wasteland of erosion and poop. That will necessitate more doctoring for feet/worms/fly control...and probably not the ideal conditions for your pets. Your grass will likely never recover and inedible weeds will takeover. But I think it is "possible" for you to give them access to everything, it will just result in more work longer term.

All the info you ever need on grazing with polywire is on YouTube (for free). And you DONT need to go spend a billion dollars on everything the YouTube stars are selling to you. Just apply the principles and do it in small chunks.

 

[Mrcopier]

How much property do you have?

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Amanda wrote " My bovines are in a four acre pasture and I can walk them into my yard (which is not completely fenced in) To then get to another pasture that is an acre that is completely fenced with an arena. "

[Calculator] How to Calculate Your Cattle’s Hay Needs and Cut Costs This Winter

Prepare your cattle for winter with our comprehensive guide on calculating hay needs. Learn how to factor in cow size, feeding duration, hay wastage, and more to ensure your herd stays healthy and productive through the cold months

ranchr.ag

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Thank you Mark, The vet called her elderly, her old owner called her "squatty and stout", all of that will hurt a girl's feelings. She has never had a calf before so should I just call her a cow instead? Because of her size (which very closely resembles buffalo) she has vertical cracks in the front of her hooves that need some attention. I don't think her hooves have ever been trimmed before, and likely there is nothing that will fix the vertical cracks, but if I keep her hooves trimmed properly and introduce her to salads, she should be good to go for many more years.

Yes, people should choose their words more carefully. No one wants to be referred to as "an old heifer" or "an ornery old heifer".
Perhaps a "senior heifer".

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Since I'm feeding 2 Jerseys and 3 calves I checked the cost of alfalfa in the above article.
Dairy cows in milk go through a lot of alfalfa.
"

Price per Ton/Bale

Hay prices can fluctuate depending on a few factors, the type, the quality and market conditions. Here's an overview of the average costs for various types of hay based on market information.

• Alfalfa: $200 per ton or $10 per bale - $10 a bale! When was this written? Its $22.00 a 3 string bale here - ton price
• Timothy: $180 per ton or $9 per bale - Timothy or orchard grass is $22 a bale also.
• Grass hay: $160 per ton or $8 per bale - Native grass hay costs $6.00 a 2 string bale here.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I really wish the Ag Extension agent or my vet would have told me that I would need to subdivide the pasture. We talked about having to do that for goats and sheep but not cows. I don't really want to do that. I have one area where a water trough can easily go. I don't have a natural water source and I have a tree canopy right down the middle of the pasture. I am planning to feed with hay through the winter, and actually already started supplementing. What happens if I don't have at least four places to move them around? I have already had them in the same pasture for six weeks. Am I hurting them? I understand why it's best to let my yearling have a calf but I could not sell it. Then I would have three cows in a bad set up. I appreciate you all sharing your knowledge with me. I am now thinking I didn't do enough research ahead of time.

OK. Relax and take a breath. You are nit hurting your pets (heifer and heiferette) in any way by not rotating or sub-dividing the pasture. You are not hurting them either by letting them graze for longer than six weeks. The exact same reasons you subdivide a pasture for goats and sheep are the same reasons you subdivide a pasture for hay.

I'm going to digress for a moment and point something out that just got done to you that I see get done repeatedly by pasture/cattle 'experts' ALL the time. These professionals tell you what to doc without telling you WHY to do it! @AmandaQ, did you find the "Four Never Fail Rules of Grazing"? Let me know if you did not. This education is a vital part of what these professionals should be/are supposed to be doing. If they would only explain why, they might get listened to a lot more.

The division of pastures/creation of sub-pastures is more for the health and conservation of the soil and environment. That said, creating a 5 pasture rotation system from a single continuous use pasture will double the amount of feed the animals can eat from the pasture, or let you double the number of animals you can put on the pasture, before overgrazing begins to take place.

Some food for thought for you. If you breed your yearling and your yearling has a heifer and you do not sell the calf, you are back in the same situation that you are in right now.

If you end up with 3 animals, you will need to subdivide your pasture more to prevent overgrazing. This will mean you have to move your pets from one pasture to the next more often.

I will help you with designing a pasture layout and a grazing plan if you want me to. If I do that, I will explain the why of everything, and by all means, ask me questions. Your vet won't know much about dividing pastures. Your extension agent will. The NRCS can give you financial assistance for your pasture creation (I work for the NRCS).

 

[AmandaQ]

OK. Relax and take a breath. You are nit hurting your pets (heifer and heiferette) in any way by not rotating or sub-dividing the pasture. You are not hurting them either by letting them graze for longer than six weeks. The exact same reasons you subdivide a pasture for goats and sheep are the same reasons you subdivide a pasture for hay.

I'm going to digress for a moment and point something out that just got done to you that I see get done repeatedly by pasture/cattle 'experts' ALL the time. These professionals tell you what to doc without telling you WHY to do it! @AmandaQ, did you find the "Four Never Fail Rules of Grazing"? Let me know if you did not. This education is a vital part of what these professionals should be/are supposed to be doing. If they would only explain why, they might get listened to a lot more.

The division of pastures/creation of sub-pastures is more for the health and conservation of the soil and environment. That said, creating a 5 pasture rotation system from a single continuous use pasture will double the amount of feed the animals can eat from the pasture, or let you double the number of animals you can put on the pasture, before overgrazing begins to take place.

Some food for thought for you. If you breed your yearling and your yearling has a heifer and you do not sell the calf, you are back in the same situation that you are in right now.

If you end up with 3 animals, you will need to subdivide your pasture more to prevent overgrazing. This will mean you have to move your pets from one pasture to the next more often.

I will help you with designing a pasture layout and a grazing plan if you want me to. If I do that, I will explain the why of everything, and by all means, ask me questions. Your vet won't know much about dividing pastures. Your extension agent will. The NRCS can give you financial assistance for your pasture creation (I work for the NRCS).

Thank you Mark! I very much appreciate your help. I've spent a lot of time worrying that I'm starving them. Not knowing what I'm doing has been more stressful than I anticipated. I'm taking a breath and reading about the why now.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

As long as you have forage that has at least fair quality of sufficient height in your pasture, your pets will be happy and content, and not starve. I alluded to without directly saying in my last post on this thread, rotating the animals from pasture to pasture is a way to keep the PASTURES healthy. Rotations are done for the sake of the pasture, not nearly as much for the cows. Although if the cows eat ALL the forage in a pasture down to a half inch tall, that is going to mean you have to move the cows to another pasture or feed them supplementally.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

As Mark explained, the rotational grazing is for the LAND/pasture/weed control. You could easily split your 4 acreas like a pie shape off the spot where the water is located. So, all you have to do is move the polywire right near the water source. They would drink out of your existing tank. Eat out of Lot 1, then move just the last 20 feet or so of the fence to that they have access to Lot 2, then Lot 3, and Lot 4.
There is no RULE that you have to rotate. It is just that the cattle will keep eating only the "good" stuff and the weeds will take over and the "good" grass will die out. Yes, cattle eat weeds, some just as good as grass, but soon the good tasting weeds succumb to the bad tasting weeds. You "should" mow the weeds so they do not go to seed. If kept mowed, the cattle will tend to eat most of the weeds as young tender plants.
Can you ignore all the complicated advice - ABSOLUTELY. Your cattle will survive and be happy as long as you feed them hay/supplement/minerals.

 

[AmandaQ]

How much pasture do you have and what kind of quality is the forage on it? A section (640 acres) of sand would support less cattle than ten acres of lush grass. Pasture rotation is about maximizing the number of animals you can feed in an area. If you aren't trying to feed as many animals as you can to make money from an investment then you may be fine without crossfencing.

One of the rookie mistakes people make, especially if they see their cattle as pets, is to overfeed them. If they have decent grass to eat they will be fine without supplements, and probably healthier.

And if you aren't trying to support your cattle with the money you make from calves, then don't breed your heifer. In fact you might want to get her spayed so she doesn't go through continuous heat cycles.

I like cattle but don't see them as pets. I doubt many people here do. I don't know of anyone here that isn't treating their animals as a serious investment unless they are kids that have animals they are showing and they have been given them.

Thank you so much for the help. I have always loved cows, and wanted to own one my whole life. My great aunt and uncle had a cattle farm and they could never understand why I was obsessed. I bought a 6 acre horse property but at 55, I'm not wanting to ride a horse. It was sad to see a pasture without animals so it was finally my chance!

How much property do you have?

I have a little over six acres total. A fully fenced pasture with four acres, a fully fenced arena pasture with one acre and one big tree, and one acre not fenced all the way for my house with a yard. It was built to be a horse farm but I wanted cows instead.

 

[AmandaQ]

How much pasture do you have and what kind of quality is the forage on it? A section (640 acres) of sand would support less cattle than ten acres of lush grass. Pasture rotation is about maximizing the number of animals you can feed in an area. If you aren't trying to feed as many animals as you can to make money from an investment then you may be fine without crossfencing.

One of the rookie mistakes people make, especially if they see their cattle as pets, is to overfeed them. If they have decent grass to eat they will be fine without supplements, and probably healthier.

And if you aren't trying to support your cattle with the money you make from calves, then don't breed your heifer. In fact you might want to get her spayed so she doesn't go through continuous heat cycles.

I like cattle but don't see them as pets. I doubt many people here do. I don't know of anyone here that isn't treating their animals as a serious investment unless they are kids that have animals they are showing and they have been given them.

I have a fenced four acre pasture that has pretty nice looking grass on most of it except right down the middle there are pine and other kind of trees to make a shady strip. There is a 10 by 20 stable that they can go in when they want to. I don't know the type of grass but I think it's Bermuda and something else. My cows are eating it down nicely so far. I also have an acre fenced with a horse arena and a very large shade tree but I have not moved them there yet.

I think spaying might be a really good idea. I don't want my yearling to go wandering for a bull. We hear cows and horses from the ranch behind us so she would know where to go.

I understand my goals are a little different, and I am very thankful there are beef ranchers in the world because I like steak! I don't think hobby farm people know nearly as much about cows as true ranchers do. I want my grass to flourish, I want my cows to be happy and I would like it to stare at a beautiful pasture with majestic animals in it. I think I will have to think through how to make all of that work.

I definitely feel like I am overfeeding because I am scared to underfeed. I'm guessing on actual weights, I don't know how old my yearling is, I know she looks young and needs to grow. I like giving them treats because they are really sweet when I have treats in my pocket. It's good for me to take your words to heart though. I am trying to make healthy happy cows and not break the bank!

 

[AmandaQ]

As Mark explained, the rotational grazing is for the LAND/pasture/weed control. You could easily split your 4 acreas like a pie shape off the spot where the water is located. So, all you have to do is move the polywire right near the water source. They would drink out of your existing tank. Eat out of Lot 1, then move just the last 20 feet or so of the fence to that they have access to Lot 2, then Lot 3, and Lot 4.
There is no RULE that you have to rotate. It is just that the cattle will keep eating only the "good" stuff and the weeds will take over and the "good" grass will die out. Yes, cattle eat weeds, some just as good as grass, but soon the good tasting weeds succumb to the bad tasting weeds. You "should" mow the weeds so they do not go to seed. If kept mowed, the cattle will tend to eat most of the weeds as young tender plants.
Can you ignore all the complicated advice - ABSOLUTELY. Your cattle will survive and be happy as long as you feed them hay/supplement/minerals.

I think I need to figure out what polywire is. This plan could work, I would have to figure out how to run the wire and hope that my big girl wants to stay in the desired area.

 

[Travlr]

I have a fenced four acre pasture that has pretty nice looking grass on most of it except right down the middle there are pine and other kind of trees to make a shady strip. There is a 10 by 20 stable that they can go in when they want to. I don't know the type of grass but I think it's Bermuda and something else. My cows are eating it down nicely so far. I also have an acre fenced with a horse arena and a very large shade tree but I have not moved them there yet.

I think spaying might be a really good idea. I don't want my yearling to go wandering for a bull. We hear cows and horses from the ranch behind us so she would know where to go.

I understand my goals are a little different, and I am very thankful there are beef ranchers in the world because I like steak! I don't think hobby farm people know nearly as much about cows as true ranchers do. I want my grass to flourish, I want my cows to be happy and I would like it to stare at a beautiful pasture with majestic animals in it. I think I will have to think through how to make all of that work.

I definitely feel like I am overfeeding because I am scared to underfeed. I'm guessing on actual weights, I don't know how old my yearling is, I know she looks young and needs to grow. I like giving them treats because they are really sweet when I have treats in my pocket. It's good for me to take your words to heart though. I am trying to make healthy happy cows and not break the bank!

If you have a line of trees bisecting your pasture it might be easy to run and electric fence from tree to tree to divide the pasture. Between that and the acre of arena area you would have three pastured to rotate and that would probably be plenty for what you are doing.

If you are driving down the road and look at the different set-ups people have and how many animals they have and the condition of their grass, you'll get a feel for what we are talking about. You'll see horses on dirt a lot because they are tough on grass compared to cows.

You are asking the right questions. Being willing to figure things out puts you ahead of the curve.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I think I need to figure out what polywire is. This plan could work, I would have to figure out how to run the wire and hope that my big girl wants to stay in the desired area.

Polywire, is quick, easy and effective. You will have to introduce your gals to a fence charger, but once they are introduced (and it won't hurt them) your gals will have a healthy respect for the poly wire.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

One of the rookie mistakes people make, especially if they see their cattle as pets, its overfeed them. If they have decent grass to eat they will be fine without supplements, and probably healthier.

Travlr and I have both said it, your pets will be fine on decent grass. It sounds like you have that right now. Don't leave them in the 4 acre lot, undivided, all winter long and eat it down to a half inch by spring. If it is Bermuda, don't graze the 4 acres any shorter than 2 inches this winter and put them in the one acre pasture at that point. If the one acre pasture gets short (to a half inch) that can be dealt with in the spring. We want to avoid doing this to the majority (the 4 acre pasture) of your pasture acreage.

A "grass only" diet for your girls sounds like it might be a good idea based on what you said the vet said.

 

[farmerjan]

Thank you for the clarification... that you just like cattle and always wanted one/some. God bless you for doing something you want to do... and that you bought a horse facility... and didn't want empty pastures.
Although it rather "goes against the grain" of most cattle producers/farmers... it makes sense if you just want a couple of cows...
Good suggestion... to get a steer instead of dealing with a heifer... fact is many of us find that many of our steers are "more friendly" than heifers.... seems you get a real nice heifer, born out of a favorite cow, and the steer that another cow has is twice as friendly.... you want the heifer to be the friendly one and it is the steer, that is the friendly one... and you know you are going to sell it or eat him.... go figure....

In your case, checking things out on the internet will give you some basic knowledge... like poly wire and things to learn about.... and then you will at least have a general idea of what people are talking about..... rotational grazing...
I think that just mostly pasture is going to be the very best/easiest way to keep them... and to not let them get fat. A "pet cow" does not need high quality alfalfa..... a decent grass hay for maybe some of the winter or if it is real dry and grasses are poor. Keep the grain and treats for just that.... TREATS.... as a way to entice them to do what you want them to do....
treats does not mean feeding pounds of grain... but will keep them coming to you and "wanting more"....

Don't get them looking like the tub of lards that so many people wind up with because "FiFi just wanted a little extra" or that "my precious little princess only gets a couple treats".....and these animals look like walking barrels.... waddling and so far out of shape and such... Just like people... too much weight will put a strain on every part of their body... but a little treat to reinforce the preferred behavior is good... just like training a dog or anything...POSITIVE reinforcement...