New Thread - Immigration

[sstterry]

If one believes that a job is bait, it has to be remembered it works both ways.

They wouldn't have been illegally hired, if they weren't illegally here to begin with.

Would you think a physical barrier would help with this?? Maybe an electric fence, or a moat with alligators .

I think increased security through drones ect. A wall that long will not work unless you also have the other. Tunnels ladders ect will be easy enough to get around a wall.

 

[slick4591]

I think increased security through drones ect. A wall that long will not work unless you also have the other. Tunnels ladders ect will be easy enough to get around a wall.

That's pretty much a worthless excuse considering the libs are trying to make it harder to buy guns. Yes, you can still buy a gun even with tough gun laws, so why make it harder if you can still get around those laws?

 

[greybeard]

Only the mind of a bureaucrat would exclusively blame business and corporate America for the immigration problem.

The fact that this nation exists, that the fact that we are here, is the only true "bait".
MLK said "We will overcome".
La Raza said "We will overwhelm".
Over 50% of the populous of Mexico believes they have the natural right to cross any of their own external borders unimpeded by any other nation. Nearly that many truly believe the US SW belongs to Mexico and should be reclaimed thru a new Reconquista.
and not just the southwest either.
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... conquista/


It's against the law in some US cities to leave keys in a vehicle. They don't however, arrest the car owner when someone steals the car..they arrest the thief.

 

[Bright Raven]

Only the mind of a bureaucrat would exclusively blame business and corporate America for the immigration problem.

The fact that this nation exists, that the fact that we are here, is the only true "bait".
MLK said "We will overcome".
La Raza said "We will overwhelm".
Over 50% of the populous of Mexico believes they have the natural right to cross any of their own external borders unimpeded by any other nation. Nearly that many truly believe the US SW belongs to Mexico and should be reclaimed thru a new Reconquista.
and not just the southwest either.
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... conquista/


It's against the law in some US cities to leave keys in a vehicle. They don't however, arrest the car owner when someone steals the car..they arrest the thief.

Not a blame game. IMO, we need to stop providing the incentives.

 

[greybeard]

You just blamed it.....on 'the incentives'.

 

[76 Bar]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/2...-rivera-allegedly-passed-e-verify-system.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/2...registered-to-suspect-rivera-source-says.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/us/mollie-tibbetts-cristhian-rivera.html
:frowns:

 

[Bright Raven]

You just blamed it.....on 'the incentives'.

You are playing a game of semantics. IMO, the most effective solution to the problem of illegal immigrants is to take away the "bait" that gives them the reason for coming. You are correct, what they are doing is illegal. I think everyone would agree that just saying "shame on you, you are illegal" is not going to work. Some may suggest a wall. Some may say, who cares, what I say is take away the incentive to come. Maybe they will stay in Mexico.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I'm all for taking away the govt assistance, illegal jobs, and whatever else you can in order to try and curb illegal immigration.
However Mexico is a shythole. As long as America is better they will keep coming until our country is worse than theirs.
I certainly don't blame them for coming. I don't like it but they are only trying to better themselves for the most part. A few are ill intentioned but most are desperate.

 

[Cross-7]

I don't think the problem has so much to do with wanting to improve their lives through gainful employment, but rather the ones that come here for crimmal activity whether it be drug trafficking, human trafficking, theft , welfare and etc.

 

[snoopdog]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

 

[Bright Raven]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

I agree with most of this. I knew several Mexican Americans in Denver. Their values rival a cross section of the citizens in this nation. And yes, we have our fair share of troubled citizens. I don't like to use the term white trash.

 

[littletom]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

I understand what you are saying very clear. I think it best me stay out of this one.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

I agree with most of this. I knew several Mexican Americans in Denver. Their values rival a cross section of the citizens in this nation. And yes, we have our fair share of troubled citizens. I don't like to use the term white trash.

Here there is a direct correlation between tattoos and pit bulls chained to cinder blocks and the IQ of the inhabitants of the trailer.

 

[Bright Raven]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

I agree with most of this. I knew several Mexican Americans in Denver. Their values rival a cross section of the citizens in this nation. And yes, we have our fair share of troubled citizens. I don't like to use the term white trash.

Here there is a direct correlation between tattoos and pit bulls chained to cinder blocks and the IQ of the inhabitants of the trailer.

I could go take some pictures tomorrow that would not paint a much better picture. It is not pretty how some people live.

 

[Cross-7]

Mexicans are not the only Spanish speaking people in this hemisphere , which is the impression I get from reading these comments. Many people not only want to come to this country for economic reasons , but many are fleeing violence and persecution of the worst kind. Are they not human beings also ? Should we send them back to their ill fate? When people say they don't contribute , do they not buy goods and pay sales tax? Do they not buy gasoline and pay road tax? On and On. Illegal immigrants can't draw welfare . The Mexican americans that I know , have a sense of family that surpasses 90% of the lazy white trash around here . I happen to work with a guatemalen who was viciously tortured by the gangs there , and has the scars. I believe that if it weren't for the immigrants , legal or otherwise , spending money here , our economic situation would be substantially worse. Should there be some reform , yes , should we have security ,yes, but the proper perspective with an open mind is the only way we will solve it ,building a wall won't .

I agree with most of this. I knew several Mexican Americans in Denver. Their values rival a cross section of the citizens in this nation. And yes, we have our fair share of troubled citizens. I don't like to use the term white trash.

Here there is a direct correlation between tattoos and pit bulls chained to cinder blocks and the IQ of the inhabitants of the trailer.

Exactly !
Don't forget piercings, ear gauges, saggy pants, rolling papers, blunts, half a dozen dirty kids, loud talking, cussing and etc.

We grow our own troubles.
We don't need to import anymore.

We don't need the ones bringing in drugs, kidnapping women and children and momma shooting out a half dozen babies living in government housing. Getting free housing, taking the babies to the free clinic or county hospital getting food stamps while baby daddy's are out gang banging and robbing and stealing.
We have become too soft

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Tell it like it is!

 

[bball]

I guess, once again, i dont understand the debate. This is a multi faceted problem that will no doubt require multi faceted answers. Is it a crime to enter the US illegally. Absolutely. They are criminals. However, why do they come here? For an assortment of reasons, and near the top of that list is employment, welfare, and all the issues Raven has mentioned. I happen to agree that not hiring illegals and providing welfare will decrease their numbers coming here. Why argue over one simple aspect of a multifaceted solution. We need tighter enforcement at the border because JMJ is right, as long as the US is better then there, they're not going to stop trying. Our country provides routes for legal immigration and naturalization. So, it isn't as if those looking to escape don't have legal options. Build a wall, dig a moat, increase manpower, stop providing welfare and employment opportunities, are just a few small parts of a much more complex solution.
Anyone know how much time and resources are wasted deporting someone, only to do the entire process again just a few days later? I do, firsthand.
Local LE here won't even consider deportation for illegals because when they contact ICE, the resources just aren't available unless theyre a felon...and even then sometimes, ICE isnt interested.

 

[greybeard]

You just blamed it.....on 'the incentives'.

You are playing a game of semantics.

And you aren't?
Of course you are. Rationalization and compartmentalization.
Just as the Mexican govt claims the cartel drug trade is completely 'our' fault because 'we' provide a demand and yet any mention of making the Southern border air tight meets beyond stiff resistance from that same govt.

 

[boondocks]

In terms of jobs and immigration, I think we are basically "exporting" jobs, just reversing locations of job/employee. The net effect is that real wages for low-skilled labor are kept down: if 2 dairy farmers in a county hire illegal immigrants, how can the other two pay a higher wage (to legal residents) and still compete to sell milk to the big buyers? It's like drugs in the Tour de France, or MLB: a race to the bottom (if a few do it, everyone else must also or face elimination). Body builders solved the problem by instituting a separate system of competitions for "natural" (drug-tested) bodybuilders.
Also: employers of illegal immigrants often steal wages etc., knowing that the employee can't complain. This is exploitative and in some cases amounts to an underground system approaching chattel slavery for the most wretched.
We probably need to cut back on gov't benefits for able-bodied people BUT couple it with increased wages and benefits for low-skilled labor. I do feel for many immigrants but the use of their labor keeps wages (and therefore goods/services) lower than they would otherwise be. Cheaper grapes and lawn care: Good in the short-term. bad in the long-term, like Walmart.

 

[snoopdog]

Its a tough and complicated issue.