New Perimeter Fence

[RobD]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

 

[ccr]

:welcome:

Rob, I'm no fence builder, but would suggest clearing a path around perimeter in order to be able to access fence for building and maintenance. We built fence on 60 acres about 20 years ago and wished we would have used steel pipe instead of cedar post.

The fence guy will chime in with some good advice.

 

[MurraysMutts]

The wood post every so many posts will help keep the fence upright from pressure of the cows invariably pushing on the fence

 

[sstterry]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

Rob,

Callmefence will see this and he will be able to answer all of your questions. First, where are you located? Materials and location can make a big difference. While I agree with CCR, steel pipe is not as readily available here as is is in the Southwest so we never see it used.

 

[wbvs58]

G'day Rob, welcome to CT. I have pretty rough country here that I am in the slow process of refencing the boundary. I do not stress about putting in any wooden or heavier pipe posts to hold the fence up other than at the crest of a hill, change in direction or in the bottom of a valley and have no problem with the fence standing up. Some of my old fence can be given a new lease of life by cutting out the wooden posts that are pulling it over and putting in what we call steel pickets and straining it up. When fencing in our terrain you just have to be innovative. I do try to clear the fenceline for about 10 metres either side with my excavator but it can't get into the really rough granite rock stuff. Things like a bit of plate welded to a bit of pipe and then Chemset to the rock.

Ken

 

[RobD]

Thanks for the responses so far, I live in Northern California. Just driving around I do see 5 strand fences with just t-posts along some of the roads holding cattle. It doesn't look like there is any hotwire.

At first I was just concerned with getting something in place, but given the size of the area I'm adding concern of not wanting to do it twice also...

 

[callmefence]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

We call them stiffner post. And typically put them every 100'. You absolutely can get by without them. The main reason we put them in is folks expect them. A 1.35 tpost is stronger than most 4" wood post. It might bend but it won't break. Of course you have to drive the tpost deeper (longer post) than normal.
With that said most tpost in my area are only put in about 18" . In this case the stiffner post becomes more important. My advice is to build a brace twice as strong as you can imagine needing. Put a 1.35 tpost every 12' deep enough to get below frost line or around 2 foot. Whichever is greater. Drive a pipe post every 8 or 96'. Pull at least six wires for cattle or 10 for sheep and goats. And pull it twice as tight as you think it should be.

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

 

[simme]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

We call them stiffner post. And typically put them every 100'. You absolutely can get by without them. The main reason we put them in is folks expect them. A 1.35 tpost is stronger than most 4" wood post. It might bend but it won't break. Of course you have to drive the tpost deeper (longer post) than normal.
With that said most tpost in my area are only put in about 18" . In this case the stiffner post becomes more important. My advice is to build a brace twice as strong as you can imagine needing. Put a 1.35 tpost every 12' deep enough to get below frost line or around 2 foot. Whichever is greater. Drive a pipe post every 8 or 96'. Pull at least six wires for cattle or 10 for sheep and goats. And pull it twice as tight as you think it should be.

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

Mr Fence - How would you handle those seasonal creeks he described? "Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?"

Given that they are 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide, would you take the fence down 10 feet or just go straight over with the fence and then build another run or water gap down in the creek? Wonder how much water flow and debris are in these "seasonal" creeks? These seem to be the most difficult for what he described.

 

[Rafter S]

You mentioned augering small holes and driving wood posts. I suggest you try that before making any definite plans. Unless you're in very soft soil I suspect it will more difficult than you think.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

We call them stiffner post. And typically put them every 100'. You absolutely can get by without them. The main reason we put them in is folks expect them. A 1.35 tpost is stronger than most 4" wood post. It might bend but it won't break. Of course you have to drive the tpost deeper (longer post) than normal.
With that said most tpost in my area are only put in about 18" . In this case the stiffner post becomes more important. My advice is to build a brace twice as strong as you can imagine needing. Put a 1.35 tpost every 12' deep enough to get below frost line or around 2 foot. Whichever is greater. Drive a pipe post every 8 or 96'. Pull at least six wires for cattle or 10 for sheep and goats. And pull it twice as tight as you think it should be.

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

Rabbits a problem in the pasture?

 

[sstterry]

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

How do you build those stays?

 

[MurraysMutts]

Keeps the rabbits and mice outta the hay!

 

[callmefence]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be fencing in about 60 acres over pretty uneven ground. I've seen some of the videos here and been reading about right and wrong ways to build a fence so:

I'm thinking 5 strand barbed, I'd like it to hold some cattle, from what I read holding goats would require more, like a 10 strand.

One of fenceman's videos shows a very long stretch of t-posts and what ive been reading says you need a wood post every 3-5 t-posts... Does this not apply if you have a long straight stretch and can pull the wire very tight?

What is everyone's thoughts on t-posts/wood post ratio?

Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?

Lastly quite a bit of this fence line will require hiking. As far as setting the wood posts, do the require concrete or can I auger a hole slightly smaller than the post and just drive it in tight? Carrying concrete and water will be a tough one out there.

We call them stiffner post. And typically put them every 100'. You absolutely can get by without them. The main reason we put them in is folks expect them. A 1.35 tpost is stronger than most 4" wood post. It might bend but it won't break. Of course you have to drive the tpost deeper (longer post) than normal.
With that said most tpost in my area are only put in about 18" . In this case the stiffner post becomes more important. My advice is to build a brace twice as strong as you can imagine needing. Put a 1.35 tpost every 12' deep enough to get below frost line or around 2 foot. Whichever is greater. Drive a pipe post every 8 or 96'. Pull at least six wires for cattle or 10 for sheep and goats. And pull it twice as tight as you think it should be.

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

Mr Fence - How would you handle those seasonal creeks he described? "Also this will be going over some pretty cut out seasonal creeks some about 20' wide and '10 feet deep. I assume I'd need a wood post anywhere the fence changes direction or elevation so you have a fresh spot to pull tension from?"

Given that they are 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide, would you take the fence down 10 feet or just go straight over with the fence and then build another run or water gap down in the creek? Wonder how much water flow and debris are in these "seasonal" creeks? These seem to be the most difficult for what he described.

I would build a brace on each side of the creek. Pull a cable across above the high water line. And hang cattle panels. Tons of pictures in the fence tips and tricks. Every creek crossing is different , so you have to apply common sense.
And they all need to be somewhat sacrificial.
You want the gap to go before your fence is damaged. We build some pipe gaps for the high fence crowd. ...they typically have plenty of money to throw around. I don't consider it practical for most small cattle outfits. A panel gap is cheap and easy to fix.

 

[callmefence]

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

How do you build those stays?

https://www.ruralking.com/red-brand-barbed-wire-fence-stay-42-74747

 

[sstterry]

10 Barb on 16' centers with stays.

How do you build those stays?

https://www.ruralking.com/red-brand-barbed-wire-fence-stay-42-74747

I was afrad you had to weave each one yourself......

 

[RobD]

When pulling tension on the wires, I assume this is done from one stiffener post to the next, and then you attached the wire to T-posts in between?

And thank you all for the replys.

 

[bird dog]

I had one like fence mentions and didn't even use the cable. The ends of the wire panels were tied off to a brace and the panels going across the creek was just loosely wired on the down stream side to Tposts . They were tied up about 16" above the ground which let enough water through on most rain events.
The creek would rise up enough to bust it loose a couple times a year. The panels would roll back with the flow. The fix was as simple as straightening up the tposts and pulling the panels back to gather and retying them.
Sometimes the battles are not worth fighting.

 

[simme]

When pulling tension on the wires, I assume this is done from one stiffener post to the next, and then you attached the wire to T-posts in between?

And thank you all for the replys.

The stiffener posts every 100 feet are single posts with no bracing. Their purpose is to support the fence vertically and hopefully prevent it from being pushed over perpendicular to the direction of the fence. You do not stretch to these posts. You install brace posts at the beginning and the end of a run, where there is a major change in direction (like 90 degrees) or every 1000 feet or so on a very long straight run. These consist of two posts set deep in the ground 8-10 feet apart with a horizontal post between them with a diagonal wire/cable pulling them toward the end of the run. If you are using pipe, they will be welded together as one unit and the horizontal member may be diagonal. This setup braces the end post to make it much stronger so that you can stretch the wire very tight. All the tightness is supported by these braces on the ends. The t-posts and stiffener post just hold the fence up and keep in in line. Install the brace posts, stretch a wire near the ground from the brace posts at one end of the run to the brace posts at the other end of the run. This establishes the straight line. Install the stiffener posts every 100 feet. Install/stretch the wire between the braces and secure on each end. Then, install the t-posts and secure the wire to the stiffener posts and t-posts.

Here is a set of videos that show the basics for fixed knot wire. Sure you can find others that fit your installation.
http://staytuff.com/StepsChecklist.asp

The keys to a good fence:

Strong/big posts on the ends set deep.
Pull the wire tight and then some more.
Tie/secure the wire at the ends so that is stays tight.

Remember the weakest item determines the strength of the fence. You have to do all three of these.

Mr. Fence's motto - "If it ain't tight, it ain't right". It will never be tighter than the day you install it.

If you install a fence along a road in a curve, be prepared to repair it. You can keep the animals in, but hard to keep the cars out.

I have built a few fences. My son builds fences full time. It looks easy in the video. Most fencing videos are done in ideal conditions. It can be hard work. Hope you don't have a lot of rock.

 

[RobD]

When pulling tension on the wires, I assume this is done from one stiffener post to the next, and then you attached the wire to T-posts in between?

And thank you all for the replys.

You install brace posts at the beginning and the end of a run, where there is a major change in direction (like 90 degrees) or every 1000 feet or so on a very long straight run.

So you're saying you can pull tension on the wire around slight bends or elevation changes? Seems like that would pull posts over sideways or up out of the ground?

 

[simme]

When pulling tension on the wires, I assume this is done from one stiffener post to the next, and then you attached the wire to T-posts in between?

And thank you all for the replys.

You install brace posts at the beginning and the end of a run, where there is a major change in direction (like 90 degrees) or every 1000 feet or so on a very long straight run.

So you're saying you can pull tension on the wire around slight bends or elevation changes? Seems like that would pull posts over sideways or up out of the ground?

You can have slight bends around a post. Use a large post set deep. Here is some more info.
http://staytuff.com/PDF/Stay-Tuff%20Installation%20Guide%20final%20Oct%2013.pdf
The more bends you have and the more angle of the bend in a single run/stretch, the harder it is to get the desired tension. For elevation changes, these have to be accommodated unless your ground is level. Add additional stiffener posts in high spots and low spots to hold the wire up or down as required. Friction between the post and the hole keeps the post in position. The larger the post diameter, the more friction you have to hold the elevation. Big elevation changes over a short distance require other solutions.