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jj216

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Stopped by one of the filling stations I use to get some diesel.I noticed they had switched to the new low sulfur.Being on E I didnt have much choice but to put it in my 98 cummins.Just curiuos if anybody has had any problems they know of due to the new fuel.Another station still has the old so Im going to use them until they change.Are they Fazing out all the old diesel.What about off road .Is it going to change also.
 

flaboy?

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The new diesel is safe for all diesel engines. I don't know if off-road will change but I suspect so eventually as the EPA catches up.
 

newguy25

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I have been told to run a good fuel conditioner with the new diesel. I am using TRC dieselean, but any of the good ones will help. Not sure why, but that is what my very trusted diesel mechanic told me.
matt
 

tabbylg

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I drive a '05 dodge w/ a cummings ...and haven't added treatment yet. But, I'm going to. The reason is...I also own and operate a 2005 Peterbilt with a CAT engine. I've talked to alot of machenics about this low -sulpher diesel. There has been known cases where this diesel is causing serious injector problems. In the company where I'm leased to...there is 2 trucks broke down in Ca. with injector problems. If your veichle is older than a 2007...mechanics are telling me to add injector treatment to every fill up. I've been adding Lucas brand to the Peterbilt...and inwhich my fuel milage has increased.
 

newguy25

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That sounds just about identical to what my mechanic was telling me. With the additive I am using I have not seen a loss in efficiency from the older fuel.

matt
 

Bez>

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newguy25":1o71cypr said:
That sounds just about identical to what my mechanic was telling me. With the additive I am using I have not seen a loss in efficiency from the older fuel.

matt

But, you are seeing an increase in your oprating costs with the added expense of more inputs to your fuel tank.

Bez>
 

tabbylg

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But, you are seeing an increase in your oprating costs with the added expense of more inputs to your fuel tank.

Bez>

Yes...thats true. But in the long run....no money to mechanic for injector problems. I think adding additive now will cost less in the long run. I know I said "every fill up" in last post....but I remembered him telling me it was "probably" safe to skip adding treatment every so often. Like every other fill up.
 

Bez>

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tabbylg":2zw22coa said:
But, you are seeing an increase in your oprating costs with the added expense of more inputs to your fuel tank.

Bez>

Yes...thats true. But in the long run....no money to mechanic for injector problems. I think adding additive now will cost less in the long run. Also, the mechanics I talked to said I didn't have to add it on all fill ups....but should every other fill up at least.

No argument - but do not miss the point please.

Input costs have gone up - so the money has to come from somewhere unless you plan on eating the difference. Yet another inflationary cause factor to help the returns on investment go down.

Bez>
 

NamVet_Farmer44

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tabbylg":13a97dfu said:
I drive a '05 dodge w/ a cummings ...and haven't added treatment yet. But, I'm going to. The reason is...I also own and operate a 2005 Peterbilt with a CAT engine. I've talked to alot of machenics about this low -sulpher diesel. There has been known cases where this diesel is causing serious injector problems. In the company where I'm leased to...there is 2 trucks broke down in Ca. with injector problems. If your veichle is older than a 2007...mechanics are telling me to add injector treatment to every fill up. I've been adding Lucas brand to the Peterbilt...and inwhich my fuel milage has increased.

I cannot see how low sulfur diesel or even ultra low sulfur diesel would cause any problems with the injectors...It should actually extend the life of most engines...sulfur is not good for an engine, although the low and ultra low sulfur diesels do have less lubricity which could possibly cause some problems...that still should not affect the injectors in any way, but it may cause problems to injector pumps, for the main reason that they did lose some lubricity from the fuel
 

Wewild

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NamVet_Farmer44":2sslk1oe said:
I cannot see how low sulfur diesel or even ultra low sulfur diesel would cause any problems with the injectors...It should actually extend the life of most engines...sulfur is not good for an engine, although the low and ultra low sulfur diesels do have less lubricity which could possibly cause some problems...that still should not affect the injectors in any way, but it may cause problems to injector pumps, for the main reason that they did lose some lubricity from the fuel

Hmmm. I must have been led a stray. I thought sulfur was a lubricant for the valves and maybe other parts..
 

Campground Cattle

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NamVet_Farmer44":1j0vwac1 said:
tabbylg":1j0vwac1 said:
I drive a '05 dodge w/ a cummings ...and haven't added treatment yet. But, I'm going to. The reason is...I also own and operate a 2005 Peterbilt with a CAT engine. I've talked to alot of machenics about this low -sulpher diesel. There has been known cases where this diesel is causing serious injector problems. In the company where I'm leased to...there is 2 trucks broke down in Ca. with injector problems. If your veichle is older than a 2007...mechanics are telling me to add injector treatment to every fill up. I've been adding Lucas brand to the Peterbilt...and inwhich my fuel milage has increased.

I cannot see how low sulfur diesel or even ultra low sulfur diesel would cause any problems with the injectors...It should actually extend the life of most engines...sulfur is not good for an engine, although the low and ultra low sulfur diesels do have less lubricity which could possibly cause some problems...that still should not affect the injectors in any way, but it may cause problems to injector pumps, for the main reason that they did lose some lubricity from the fuel

Diesel fuel must meet minimum lubricity requirements to protect components such as fuel injector pumps and fuel injectors against premature wear. Much of today's low-sulfur diesel (LSD) fuel stock has natural lubricity and does not need lubricity improvers. But tougher ultra-low-sulfur (ULSD) requirements, mandated by the U.S. EPA for #1 and #2 diesel fuel, take effect in June 2006. As refiners increase the severity of hydrotreating to cut sulfur content, most of the natural lubricity is removed.
The ASTM D-6079 diesel lubricity specification balances input from engine makers, standards officials, and fuels producers. It says that a "wear scar" no larger that 520 microns in diameter should result from a standardized wear test

Experts estimate that as much as 50 percent of today's LSD pool will need a lubricity improver to meet the 520-micron specification and that up to 75 percent of the diesel pool could require treatment as refiners convert to ULSD production in 2006 and beyond.
 

NamVet_Farmer44

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Wewild":2tfxcm1d said:
NamVet_Farmer44":2tfxcm1d said:
I cannot see how low sulfur diesel or even ultra low sulfur diesel would cause any problems with the injectors...It should actually extend the life of most engines...sulfur is not good for an engine, although the low and ultra low sulfur diesels do have less lubricity which could possibly cause some problems...that still should not affect the injectors in any way, but it may cause problems to injector pumps, for the main reason that they did lose some lubricity from the fuel

Hmmm. I must have been led a stray. I thought sulfur was a lubricant for the valves and maybe other parts..


Hydrotreating is the process to get rid of sulfur and other contaminants, but it also makes the fuel have much lower lubricity...the high sulfur diesel fuels did have a much greater lubricity to help lubricate the engine, but sulfur itself has no good effect on the engine
 
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jj216

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So do we need to add treatment or not.What about tractors and off road diesel is it going to be the same.
 

NamVet_Farmer44

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jj216":18bom5vu said:
So do we need to add treatment or not.What about tractors and off road diesel is it going to be the same.

chances are they probably have some additives already in them to make up for the lubricity problem after it is hydrotreated...i've put over 60,000 miles on my Powerstroke with low sulfur diesel and not one problem yet and I don't use any additive at all
 

DiamondSCattleCo

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NamVet_Farmer44":6r0v4ihz said:
that still should not affect the injectors in any way, but it may cause problems to injector pumps, for the main reason that they did lose some lubricity from the fuel

Injectors are still mechanical with moving parts and require lubricity in the fuel to ensure that those moving parts do not wear. Less lubricity in the fuel is harder on injectors than it is on injector pumps.

As for the question about treatment, I've been recommending to friends/old customers to run some treatment for at least a year or so. I think its going to take that long for _some_ of the fuel companies to get their new formulations worked out. As well, some of the ULSD is removing old deposits and wax buildup from the fuel lines. This stuff is clogging fuel filters and of course, working its way through the pumps and injectors as the lines between the filters and the pump are just as likely to have build up in them.

We're beginning to see some injection pump/injector failures in older diesels. I'm unsure if its directly related to ULSD, or whether its the aforementioned wax build up making its way through the system. Some guys insist on running cheap WIX or Fram filters that don't meet minimum filtration requirements, so deposits can make their way through.

So yes, for the short term, use a lubricity additive. And buy good filters. I prefer Fleetguard, but there are other quality filters on the market.

Rod
 
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