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new discussion: showing cattle

txag

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there have been many posts recently on the breeders' world forum regarding a new "no fit" rule by the angus board regarding shows. i know there aren't many "regular" posters on here who show, but i think we're a pretty good representative of the cattle industry (maybe minus the show folks) so i was wondering what the thoughts are on the show ring industry, whether that be show steers (the clubbie business) or junior and open breed shows.

basically what i'm asking is how does everyone feel the show ring fits into and represents the cattle industry or does it even fit at all?
 

Campground Cattle

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My opinion it doesn't, the average rancher doesn't have the money to buy the show. In the county where I live year after year I watch the richer famlies buy first place by bringing in stock that most could never afford. The best junior show I have ever seen is in Galveston county. Here they have a commerical show, you get to see the work the kids have put into these animals. These are crosssbred and nonregistered cattle, Daddy can't buy this show. The average calf cost 300 dollars or donated by ranchers. At auction most of these calves bring 1000 to 2000 dollars from the local ranchers . I offer a calf to a kid every year that normally couldn't avoid one. Last years Sim/hereford cross brought 1200 dollars for the high school girl I donated to. Good feeling to help a kid that wants to work and see what they can accomplish with a little help.
 

la4angus

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It is not a "No Fit" rule. The Angus Assn. Board of Directors passed a rule prohibiting the use of products contained in or dispensed from aerosol cans by the exhibitor or anyone helping the exhibitor on Angus cattle in shows that the Angus Assn is putting up premium money for.
More info can be found at http://www.angus.org/newmem.html
 

txag

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la4angus":39cuvfl3 said:
It is not a "No Fit" rule. The Angus Assn. Board of Directors passed a rule prohibiting the use of products contained in or dispensed from aerosol cans by the exhibitor or anyone helping the exhibitor on Angus cattle in shows that the Angus Assn is putting up premium money for.
More info can be found at http://www.angus.org/newmem.html

i realize it's not a "no fit" rule, that's just the way the folks on that site are calling it.....they act like it's the end to showing and saying they'll switch breeds. anyway, you didn't answer my question.
 

BLACKPOWER

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txag":3h2u7tsz said:
there have been many posts recently on the breeders' world forum regarding a new "no fit" rule by the angus board regarding shows. i know there aren't many "regular" posters on here who show, but i think we're a pretty good representative of the cattle industry (maybe minus the show folks) so i was wondering what the thoughts are on the show ring industry, whether that be show steers (the clubbie business) or junior and open breed shows.

basically what i'm asking is how does everyone feel the show ring fits into and represents the cattle industry or does it even fit at all?

I put no merit in what go through the show ring. My money's made in the pasture. I'll post more in this later this really gets my feathers ruffled.
 

D.R. Cattle

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Not a specialist, but nieces and nephews show them. What I've learned about it is usually the kid leaves the ring not knowing anything whatsoever about the real industry. What they learned was how to feed it and how to scoop manure. Most of the time it seems like they really don't know what it takes to win, they just pump up with feed and enter the crapshoot. I never pushed my sons to do it. I included them in the real world "why's" and "why nots" of the herd. But I guess showing is as close as many can get to cattle.
 

dun

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The only value I place in showing is the discipline that it teaches the kids. That is if they do the work and the parents don't do everything but walk in the ring with them. After all, shovlen nure has a place in the real world. We've all had to do it at one time or another, some never having even been around animals.

dun


D.R. Cattle":2ftvk6zy said:
Not a specialist, but nieces and nephews show them. What I've learned about it is usually the kid leaves the ring not knowing anything whatsoever about the real industry. What they learned was how to feed it and how to scoop manure. Most of the time it seems like they really don't know what it takes to win, they just pump up with feed and enter the crapshoot. I never pushed my sons to do it. I included them in the real world "why's" and "why nots" of the herd. But I guess showing is as close as many can get to cattle.
 
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Campground Cattle --- I know what you mean about the wealthy folks essentially buying first place for their kids. I think that practice is absolutely wrong --- even though I'm certainly not into class warfare. I'd just like to see all the kids have an equal chance. A friend of mine is a farmer and commercial cattleman and has managed to become pretty wealthy doing it (a few gas wells didn't hurt either). His kids won grand champ or reserve champ about 4 out of 5 years when they were competing. He could afford the very best in club calves and even went so far as to have a special room made in his barn with a commercial refrigeration unit so that the calves grow in a very controlled environment. Maybe lots of folks do things like that, I don't know --- but there really is scant chance that a deserving kid from a family of humble or even average means can hope to successfully compete in that sort of showing environment. Arnold Ziffle
 
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Anonymous

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I don't understand the "US vs THEM" mentality. I ai alot of my cows to clubby type bulls but 95% of my calves go as feeders. My clubby rejects do better than most in the yard and on the rail. Showing steers on the high level may not be realistic compared to the actual real world of beef production, but it is a multi billion dollar industry and there are people who like it. If you don't care for it, so be it.

There are people on this board who are from all over the world and need different types of cattle situation. In Iowa, I sure wouldn't want eared cattle and I doubt if my hot house plant cows could cut it on a mountain desert.

I disagree on the "daddy bought the show" comment. Ive seen 20,000 dollar steers get rolled in county and I've seen salebarn calves win classes at Louisville. If you can pick out a good green one and take care of it, you can be competitive on a very modest budget.
 

D.R. Cattle

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Us vs. Them is not implied. There is no versus. We aren't competing with club cattle. Frankly I'd like to see more emphasis in educating the youth. They should understand the goals (ADG's, REA, backfat, confirmation, etc) better. My local experiences are that the goal is to feed the steer and hope it does good. That's not a clearly defined goal with an understanding of the actions it takes to achieve the goal. Buying the blue ribbon is an absolute waste to the ultimate goal...teaching the youth a little something about the business of agriculture, competition and good sportsmanship.
 

PATB

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It is a good way to advertise your herd in less beef oreinted states. I personally would not have anything to do with show heifers going back into beef production. Most of the heifers I have seen have been fed too much grain and will not milk well and have developed bad feet. We have sold a number of steers over the years that have won at the local county fairs. It seems one must decide to have a show string cattle herd or production herd. I think all cattle show should be slick sheared so you are judging the cattle not the primping job.

pat
 
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Anonymous

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If they (no fit them) then they need to slick shear them. Don't be fooled this just gives more advantage to the best fitters. They don't use all that much glue and paint , It's mostly working hair. Remember I said the best ones, not the best at the 4h show.Slick you have a better chance to see them and the kids might learn what they are suppose to look like.
 

txag

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thanks for all the replies so far.

i have a young daughter who will probably start showing in a couple of years (it will be her decision & right now she says she wants to). i posed the original question because i have some mixed feelings on the subject. i think any steers we show will be home-grown & will either go local or to houston or san antonio (if they're still slick-shear). heifers will probably go to the major shows in texas as well as the jr nat'l (polled hereford/hereford). i don't think we'll go to the extremes like AZ mentioned (cooler room) & hit the road every weekend to show in classes by ourselves just to rack up tcca points, but i know you can never say never. hopefully we'll be able to keep the projects as more of a learning experience since she'll be involved in all aspects, from seedstock, commercial, show ring.
 
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Anonymous

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I think your daughter will enjoy it if you make sure she knows all the little things, Feeding on time everyday and such. There is alot to learn however it dosn't take money to win. It takes quality cattle and hard consistant work. You have to look at it like any other sport, she needs you to help her. If you don't know much make friends with some old man that has done it for years ( that is honest) I'm sure that he would be glad to help. Stay away from the young hot steer jocks ,some are crooks.
 
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Anonymous

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Yep, some are crooks. Same as any business. Bankers, stockbrokers,priests, you name it. I can honestly say the most crooked genre I have ever encountered are farmers. The salt of the earth, feed the world, blah blah frickin blah.Everyone who comes on this sight is part of the biggest bunch of shysters there is. I can name many "young" guys who are trying to make it in the clubby world who I would trust with my kids. I can only think of a few who are suspect.
 

dun

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Yup, hellishly long hours, not much income, hard manual work, boy that sure spells shyster to me. Unlike lawyers.

dun


lmjl97":u567nrx1 said:
Yep, some are crooks. Same as any business. Bankers, stockbrokers,priests, you name it. I can honestly say the most crooked genre I have ever encountered are farmers. The salt of the earth, feed the world, blah blah frickin blah.Everyone who comes on this sight is part of the biggest bunch of shysters there is. I can name many "young" guys who are trying to make it in the clubby world who I would trust with my kids. I can only think of a few who are suspect.
 

la4angus

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lmjl97":3n5af7e9 said:
Yep, some are crooks. Same as any business. Bankers, stockbrokers,priests, you name it. I can honestly say the most crooked genre I have ever encountered are farmers. The salt of the earth, feed the world, blah blah frickin blah.Everyone who comes on this sight is part of the biggest bunch of shysters there is. I can name many "young" guys who are trying to make it in the clubby world who I would trust with my kids. I can only think of a few who are suspect.
(" Everyone who comes on this is part of the biggest bunch of shysters there is."))
Obviously you are speaking of yourself.
 
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Anonymous

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Read the post. everyone who comes on this sight BELONGS TO THE GENRE OF FARMERS. I am not saying that the people on here are crooks, I am saying that we all fall under the umbrella of farmers, and I have known more dishonest farmers than any other profession. I didn't mean to get anyones dander up, but if you read my post I would bet that most all of you would agree. I guarantee all of you have a neighbor who could squeeze the bulet out of Lincoln's head and who would screw any one in a deal for the pleasure. I really didn't mean to PO anyone, take a second and think about what I wrote.
 

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