new design 1407

[crats]

I've got a chance to get a 1407 bull and want to know of any calving problems with small mixed breed cows having trouble calving with these bulls. don't know his dam but he looks good in the pix. we have some limo and limo cross cows and want to get some polled genetics in the herd any thoughts? i just got back from a view of this bull. he has small bones on his front legs which pleased me and his over all bone mass was small for his size he seems to be gentle also a plus for us, as we have a small herd (63 head) and feed some cubes from the bag. he is a bit overweight he's covering just 6 cows and has plenty of time to eat not much to occupy his time other than that. i guess his weight close to 1900 the wife says 2000/ 2100 on a frame that should be 1600 or so we think. what is the calving ease part of this bull, where does the weight of the calf when he's not a easy bull? is there a number or what? his papers say he is out of reg# 13856694 dam and his # is 14185405 explain this stuff cuase i'm not hip to all these papers and not scared to ask here? just don't make me do it at the coffee shop!!

 

[bandit80]

By saying you are wanting to get some polled genetics into your herd, I assume that means you wish to retain heifers out of this 1407 son. I have experienced some 1407 sons as Balancers in the Gelbvieh breed. I have not heard of any calving problems with 1407 or his sons, but you will most definitely want to watch out for udder quality in any female progeny, and I believe it was Angus in Texas who said you also need to watch for rear feet/leg structure as well. It might depend on the udder quality of the dam of this 1407 son. If she is OK, he may pass that trait on down.

I for one would never give up anything in udder quality on replacement females. Maybe some of the Angus breeders on board might be able to give you some other suggestions.

 

[Frankie]

I've got a chance to get a 1407 bull and want to know of any calving problems with small mixed breed cows having trouble calving with these bulls. don't know his dam but he looks good in the pix. we have some limo and limo cross cows and want to get some polled genetics in the herd any thoughts?

1407 was definitely a calving ease bull. But he's only half of the genetics in the bull you're looking at. You might want to investigate the dam's contribution to birth weight, too. You can put in the bull's registration number at this link and should be able to check back on the dam's BW and calving ease information.

http://www.angus.org/registeredangus/

He will probably add some frame if your cows are smaller framed. As for udders, he has about 4,000 daughters in production so I guess some of them have good udders. ;-)

 

[robert]

Bad udders / teat structure and hard doing best describes 1407. He got used because of his 'great' carcass numbers, which is fine if you kill them all. I know one very large Angus herd that used 1407 heavily, kept a lot of daughters and is one of the best feeders and breeders in terms of making matings that work in the business but with 3 years all the 1407 daughters had gone, too many problems. There are better calving ease Angus lines out there without the maternal downsides.

 

[Angus In Texas]

Yes it was me that made the statement about rear feet structure. 1407 did work very well for some folks..... you just had to be extremely careful in your matings. What is the bull you are looking out of on the dam's side? That would allow for better advice. And what kind of rear structure does the individual you are looking at have?

Curly calf syndrome aside, Riverbend Mile High seems to be the exception to the rule..... he is a 1407 son (not great udder quality) out of a cow that had pretty poor udder quality, but Mile High's daughters have some outstanding udders from what I have seen. And that is across a broad spectrum of matings.

So what I am saying is you can never tell 100% but be sure and look at the dam's side of the bull and then weigh the risks involved. For the cost of the bull are you willing to take the risk or are you willing to look for another bull and invest the time and possibly extra money to do that.

 

[LoveMoo11]

I used New Design on one of my former show heifers, nice looking calves but they were twin bulls :lol: :lol:

 

[crats]

i can get the bull for less than 1500 and our some of our cows have great udders and some have marginal udders. the price of a good angus bull this one is cheap to say the least i need to replace our sire with something and was needing the advice. who has had poor udders? dam # 13856694. might try to get some show calves let me know? all the comments are great to hear please keep it coming

 

[Frankie]

ALC. I haven't seen that prefix in a while. There are some larger BWs back in the pedigree, but if your cows have already had one calf, I don't think this guy would be a problem for them. 'Course you never know.

If you decide against this one, the OBI sale at Stillwater will be in March. There'll be lots of bulls sold there, some will be bargains.

 

[crats]

I've got a chance to get a 1407 bull and want to know of any calving problems with small mixed breed cows having trouble calving with these bulls. don't know his dam but he looks good in the pix. we have some limo and limo cross cows and want to get some polled genetics in the herd any thoughts? i just got back from a view of this bull. he has small bones on his front legs which pleased me and his over all bone mass was small for his size he seems to be gentle also a plus for us, as we have a small herd (63 head) and feed some cubes from the bag. he is a bit overweight he's covering just 6 cows and has plenty of time to eat not much to occupy his time other than that. i guess his weight close to 1900 the wife says 2000/ 2100 on a frame that should be 1600 or so we think. what is the calving ease part of this bull, where does the weight of the calf when he's not a easy bull? is there a number or what? his papers say he is out of reg# 13856694 dam and his # is 14185405 explain this stuff cuase i'm not hip to all these papers and not scared to ask here? just don't make me do it at the coffee shop!!

 

[Frankie]

I've got a chance to get a 1407 bull and want to know of any calving problems with small mixed breed cows having trouble calving with these bulls. don't know his dam but he looks good in the pix. we have some limo and limo cross cows and want to get some polled genetics in the herd any thoughts? i just got back from a view of this bull. he has small bones on his front legs which pleased me and his over all bone mass was small for his size he seems to be gentle also a plus for us, as we have a small herd (63 head) and feed some cubes from the bag. he is a bit overweight he's covering just 6 cows and has plenty of time to eat not much to occupy his time other than that. i guess his weight close to 1900 the wife says 2000/ 2100 on a frame that should be 1600 or so we think. what is the calving ease part of this bull, where does the weight of the calf when he's not a easy bull? is there a number or what? his papers say he is out of reg# 13856694 dam and his # is 14185405 explain this stuff cuase i'm not hip to all these papers and not scared to ask here? just don't make me do it at the coffee shop!!

His BW EPD is 1.3. The Angus Assn recommends using a bull with a BW EPD of less than 3 on first calf heifers. As I understand it, you're not using him on heifers? But this is a pedigree estimate EPD because no calves have been reported on him. He's an older bull. Ask the owner about the size of his calves.

 

[tom4018]

I looked at his pedigree and don't know much about his dam's side. I have liked the 1407 daughters I have seen but they were all heifers or bred heifers, never got to see one after calving to tell about the udder. They looked very feminine. Only recall seeing one 1407 son and he was a bull I looked at buying this past fall, he was short for my liking, but could have been the way he was raised and been stunted.

 

[capt]

Hope this helps you out some. I have responded on here before on 1407 and this is my experience with him. Very good calving ease with excellent performance into a moderate mature package. IMO he was used heavily because he does this very well. He also ADDS milk to his daughters very well, so well in fact that by the time they are five year olds, their udder is shot. When I say shot I mean teats enlarged from excess milk and not enough elasticity. Also rear attachments stretched because of too much milk. I won't even start on hind leg structure because it is horrible to look at although the cattle are reasonably sound. Looking at the particualr bulls mother. I would not expect difficult births at all provided the cow is structurally sound and correct. The background does leave some doubt as to the quality of udder you might see, but without a picture I can not say for sure. I am just going by what I have seen in daughters of both Scotch Cap and PD Big Sky. A mating with limi influenced cows could moderate the milk flow somewhat but the hybrid vigor could make up for that as well. It is always a BIG RISK for me when price becomes the underlying factor in adding genetics from a new herd sire to your cowherd. IF it was my decision, I would pass on this bull unless you sell all calves and not keep any daughters. A lower cost bull adds nothing when you have to replace his daughters earlier than normal.