Need some help. (Kinda long)

[plumber_greg]

Guys, need some help.
Got a customer that backgrounds cattle, 400 to 600 head at each site.
Our electric coop has recently raised the minumin charge on electric meters to $75. 'Cause of the dam windmill power, but that's another story.
He has rural water on some sites, pumps in ponds (tanks) on others, which are changed to rural water in winter months.
He has 16 total sites like this, so do the math what it gonna' cost each month.
Now, he is one of the best farm owners I know. Waterers are checked each day, cattle fed same time, micro manager- you get the picture.
We are trying to come up with something to take care of the monthly electric bill. He currently has Ritchie waterers, the ones with the Stainless pans and heating elements. 1/2 up to 1 hp pumps. Need about 3500 watts of power.
Energy free waterers simply are not acceptable for him. Too many problems when the windchill is below zero. I'm the one that is working on stuff. The balls freeze down, and no one has the time to check several times a day and break them loose.
Corbett waterers are not acceptable, nor is any other with the supply valve below waterline. The water company will not allow them with out a backflow preventer. Now, that is not a check valve, but a $700 piece of equipment that requires yearly inspection.
Simply not an option.
We've been looking at solar power, but to store enough seems to be a problem. Batteries need a certain type of space and are a maitence issue.
Sites are scattered over several miles, so a central solar panel won't work either.
I know energy free would be the answer, but in this area, we go from the weather of northern Arkansas, to the cold of Wisconsion, and back and forth. 600 head of calves drinking out of an energy free would cover the balls and area around it with 2' of ice in the first really extended cold snap. And, personaly, I have never installed an energy free that the customer was completely satisfied with. At least not as satisified as one with heat.
The owner is willing to spend some money on the project, but in the right way. So cost isn't really a factor if it has a return on his investment.
Anyone got anything that works in the colder climates? And works so a worn out plumber doesn't have to work on it when the temps are at -20?
Thanks for your thoughts. gs

 

[M.Magis]

the geothermal type has interested me, but I've never done it myself. Might be worth looking into.

http://www.producer.com/2003/10/geother ... cal-habit/

http://www.extension.umn.edu/agricultur ... ystems.pdf

 

[M-5]

looks like a fixed cost to me. while there may be cheaper alternatives on a monthly cost what's the start up gonna run. and is that cheaper over 5 yrs or 10yrs. that expense is deductible.

 

[Nesikep]

If you have a plentiful source of water and have a deep buried line, just some water continually flowing will not freeze up around here.
It may not be an option for you, I have gravity water, but I has a small nozzle (1/8") restrictor and it keeps an old bathtub full, -25C or about -15F and there isn't a speck of ice on it, it's on a large bed of drain rock.. works very well for us.

 

[Kingfisher]

I think your wrong about the back flow preventer. Your speaking of a preventer where there is a pool or such with a pump on the other side. You need a simple back flow valve for your application I believe.

 

[dieselbeef]

windmill

 

[bball]

Would it be an option to run the pumps off generator or too labor/time intensive? How deep are the wells? I have a few shallow wells on some pastures the do not have electric to the site. I pump water with a gas powered pump once a day. Cows come as soon as they hear the pump fire off. Again may be too time/labor intensive. Just spit balling. Are the sites remotely close enough where you could run multiple sites off of a permanent generated and just switch power between locations as needed?

Edit: sorry, just reread and saw sites are not close, and it seems you are really after a way to keep water from freezing. Rural water means you have a municipal water supply I take it?

 

[Aaron]

With rural water and the backflow preventer, he is pretty much out of luck with majority of systems as the supply valve is below the waterline. In the case of the ponds/tanks, he can install the geothermal motion detector solar systems like I have and use them summer and winter. Mind you, costs of those systems is tied to herd size, the more cattle on one unit, the more batteries and solar power it requires. A small system for 40 head will likely run him at least $2500-3000 to buy and install.

Honestly, you want a completely care-free unit. Sorry to say that they don't exist. You just decide which evil you can live with and go buy that. I don't want a heating bill, or be without water when power is out and I definitely don't want to thaw frozen water lines - so I went with the solar units. They have demons of their own, but I can live with them.

 

[plumber_greg]

Thanks, he knows trouble free doesn't exist, but wants as close as possible. Gonna' look into the geothermal systems a little more. But for 4-600 yearlings, it may not be cost effective.
No Kingfisher, not a simple valve. A backflow preventer is a type of valve that has double checks and dumps the water in the system if there is a leak on the side of the rural water company. They don't want cattle water, industrial waste water, laundry mat water, or any other contamaniated water in their water system, if the simple check valve on the metering loop fails.
Thanks gs

 

[kiend17]

i would look into a frost free nose pump. there made in alberta canada go to www.frostfreenosepumps.com that might help you some

 

[TexasBred]

looks like a fixed cost to me. while there may be cheaper alternatives on a monthly cost what's the start up gonna run. and is that cheaper over 5 yrs or 10yrs. that expense is deductible.

Hey old man I really enjoy reading your "DIY" comments and how you solve potential problems or do things to same money. Have you ever seen one of these are been around one??

http://www.instructables.com/id/Hydraulic-Ram-Pump/

Use to know an old man that had about 5 stock ponds stocked with channel cat and bass and he has a set up using these that moved water from one to the other in a constant circulation. Almost like perpetual motion.

 

[M-5]

looks like a fixed cost to me. while there may be cheaper alternatives on a monthly cost what's the start up gonna run. and is that cheaper over 5 yrs or 10yrs. that expense is deductible.

Hey old man I really enjoy reading your "DIY" comments and how you solve potential problems or do things to same money. Have you ever seen one of these are been around one??

http://www.instructables.com/id/Hydraulic-Ram-Pump/

Use to know an old man that had about 5 stock ponds stocked with channel cat and bass and he has a set up using these that moved water from one to the other in a constant circulation. Almost like perpetual motion.

I have not been around one of those. Because my geographic location it would be virtually impossible to employ that technique to move water here. Every pond is lower than the area needing water.

 

[bmoore87]

Have heard a large excavator tire with nozzle at bottom of tank works well. In the winter they put a insulated cover on it with a couple wholes cut in it to drink out of.

 

[sandhiller]

Wondering if you figured out a solution.

You said you have rural water in winter. I take that to mean continuous available.

You have tanks, use them. May be helpful to partially cover them.

Put a bleed valve in, so some water runs continuous. Could use a orfice but unable to open them easily more in colder weather.

Lower floats so that they shut off float valve at 1/2 tank full or less. With that many cattle drinking the tank may never run over, but would be best to have a over flow.

May be some ice, but I think there will be always open water.