need some guidance in my continued research THANKS!

[kfowler4444]

i've been doing alot of research about starting my cattle business...went to an auction barn today as well as talked to several people i know who have cattle and wanted to check my facts preferably with someone local...THANKS IN ADVANCE(I got alot to learn but have to start somewhere

first ill give some background info:
we have some land which is currently not in use about 20 acres(we live in Georgia) with decent grass mainly fescue(about to plant rye) and are wanting to get into the business with a few head trying to figure out which way to go either 5-10 stockers or 4-5 light breed cows about 7 years old

trying to come up with a stratagy theat will make money(my stocker startagy is at a loss trying to figure out where my numbers are off)
and check and make sure my feeder

what i have gathered so far is that:

1. feeder/stocker strategy 240day stratagy.....buy now(when i u nderstand the market is lowest sell first of july(when i understand the market is highest

- Buy 250# calves(heifer so i dont have to worry about breeding) at the local auction for what im seeing about $1.61lb if im reading this(http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/tv_ls140.txt) report correctly didnt see any calves this light go through the auction today(?) or $402

-get them home vaccinate/deworm and gradually let them out to pasture 1 at a time

-feed them 20lb/long stem hay per head (cost about $40 bail) 2lb/per day "recieving ration" (is this a type of grain? like a blended cattle feed) gradualy raising that amount up(how much i dont know?)which cost 15lb per 50lb as well as minerals and the natural grass and of course plenty of fresh water

-grow them for 240days until july gaining about 1.5lbs a day

-sell them in july at local auction at a weight of 700lb at .65/lb or $455(if i sold at market price haven't found a source to get a history or projection to what that cow would be worth in july)

TOTALS

buy 250lb cow $400
transport home +auction $ 25
<5> round bails 5000lbs long stem hay @ $40/bail $200
<20> 50lb/bags feed/grain @ $15/ea $300
minerals/wormer misc. $ 50

total investment $975
total income when sold $685

net loss of $- 293 (BAD!)

how can this be changed into a money making formula


2. light bred to pair stratagy

-buy light bred cow 995lb(5-8years old) 3mo bred .733/lb $700
-feed 240days same as above
transport home +auction $ 25
<5> round bails 5000lbs long stem hay @ $40/bail $200
<20> 50lb/bags feed/grain @ $15/ea $300
minerals/wormer misc. $ 50

-birth the calf

-total investment $1275
sell cow and calf 1400lb(can they get this big) and calf $1450 at current price

net profit $175(at current market)

is this feasable? or am i off my rocker thanks in advance

 

[Caustic Burno]

Are you saying you are going to hold on to the calf until it get's to 1400 pounds?
If so your numbers are way skewed in making 175 dollars profit cause your input cost have gone way up.
You will have to hold that calf a year so you are going to have a winter feed bill, might want to take an aspirin and rethink that idea.

 

[Jim62]

Seems like there's way too much thinking involved. Scenario #1 is probably pretty close. About $300 loss per animal is pretty reasonable.

In #2, I don't see where you get the sale weight. A 5 to 8 year old cow raising a calf isn't going to gain 400 pounds, and a 2 month old calf isn't going to weigh 400 pounds. Selling as a pair, I would think the most you could expect to get would be about $1100 -$1200 .

If you're going into this as an investment, CDs would probably do better--they pay 1 1/2 to 2 %, and it's a pretty sure thing...... :hide:

 

[kfowler4444]

yeah i'm definatly wanting to do this as a money making business which some people are able to do but i think my numbers are off and im confused wat needs to be change or what ould be changed to turn a profit.... :bang: :help:

what is a money making startagy if this can't be adjusted to do so
how do you make money in the cattle business

 

[OLD DUSTY]

Here is my two cents. I run cow-calves not stockers for what it's worth. STOCKERS: I would guess 3 bales of hay to be plenty, your feed should be closer to $8/50lb, your selling price for 700lb feeders should be around $1.15+. If your rye grass does it's job you will feed less hay and feed than you have budgeted. I started with a few stockers many moons ago to get some practice, I think for the first go round I would buy a little heavier calf and keep them for a shorter time. JMO I think your budget on cow-calf would be more like- buy bred $700 sell pair $900. It's hard to buy cheap breds and flip them with much profit per head. Have fun and remember this is the educational phase and education can be expensive.
AAAAAND YES YOU ARE OFF YOUR ROCKER, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US RAISING CATTLE. :welcome:

 

[SRBeef]

I don't see anything in your numbers allowing for amortization of the infrastructure needed. You will need fences, both permanent (usually perimeter) and portable electric to subdivide your 20 acres. You need a water source and access lanes to it. And you need a corral and some sort of handling/loading facility, whether you have 5 or 50 head. You will need a trailer and something to pull it if you don't have one already. Rotational grazing is the best way to get maximum use of your limited acreage. Pastures need care to develop.

As far as profitability goes, keep in mind if it was that easy everyone would do it. I don't think you can just go to the sale barn, buy a few calves, cows or whatever, graze them on scrub or whatever native pasture you have during the easy part of the year, bring them back to the sale barn in the summer or fall, sell them like the big guys, and expect to make a profit. At least not if you really account for your true costs.

As a small time operator I think you need to do something different. Freezer beef is one option. Raise a few just for your family and friends. etc. You must keep your purchased costs to a minimum.

At least you are thinking this out ahead of time. Good luck.

Jim

 

[BC]

Not trying to be smart with you, but go back and look at your market report and check your figures. You said you wanted to buy heifers weighing 250 to 300 lbs, yet your in price was based on steers ($161). The heifer price should be $142 based on similar weight heifers . If you get the 1.5 ADG then you will only put on 360 lbs in the 240 days you figured. By the time you figure in shrink, you need to plan on a pay weight of around 600 lbs. I would figure those heifers to bring $1.08 to $1.10, although I feel that they could be worth a little more based on the August feeder board.

You need to look for a lower cost feed. $15 per 50 is $600 per ton. You may want to look at getting a soyhull/DDG mix made for you at a local mill. Our prices are just under $300 per ton on a truckload lot.

 

[kfowler4444]

thanks to everyone on there continued input i really appreciated it....its alot to learn and undestand

what does 1.5 ADG mean?
the figures in that market report is that per hundred lbs? or per cow(doesnt add up) im confused on that...

 

[kfowler4444]

alright so based on the above i recalculate

250# heifer at 1.42/lb $355
auction fees $ 25
<3> round bails of hay $120
<20> 50 bags of feed at 7.5ea $150
minerals supplements etc. $ 50

total investment $700

sell at auction 600# 1.10/lb $660


better but still at a loss....hmm am i correct in my thinking that people are making money doing this if so what variables(advantages) do they have that allow them to do it?

Thanks Again

 

[kfowler4444]

what kind of startgy would work on the breed cow to pair? if there is one?

i'm trying to get my economics down to where i can see a profit on paper before i jump in(that way at least ill have something to shoot for as everyone know no matter how much preparation is done in a business something unexpected(and costly)always shows its self

Thanks

 

[OLD DUSTY]

alright so based on the above i recalculate

250# heifer at 1.42/lb $355
auction fees $ 25
<3> round bails of hay $120
<20> 50 bags of feed at 7.5ea $150
minerals supplements etc. $ 50

total investment $700

sell at auction 600# 1.10/lb $660


better but still at a loss....hmm am i correct in my thinking that people are making money doing this if so what variables(advantages) do they have that allow them to do it?

Thanks Again

Hopefully some guys who run stockers will be on later. ADG is average daily gain. To make a profit you will need to pick good "green " ie. not to fat and ready to grow calves, pay a little less, keep them healthy, sell them for a little more and you will make a profit. Piece of cake :hide:
Yes people do make money and lose money doing this. Those that have done this for a long time have experience and a good eye for cattle, but you are dealing with markets that fluctuate, that also has a lot to do with making a profit. In your scenario move your selling price to $1.16 and you are at break even. There is no way to know what the market will be. I don't mean this to sound crass, but don't gamble with more than you can afford to lose.

 

[tncattle]

I buy stockers in April (fully weaned, vaccinated--I worm) at about 500-600 lbs. put them on grass until Sept or Oct. and sell. Keep it simple, if I buy healthy & weaned calves I have less problems (almost none). Just need to have good adequate grass (the key). I don't run any stockers in winter--doesn't pencil out. Sounds simple but that's what I do and it has worked for me, I'm not getting rich but am making a profit--if I can ever get enough grass I can make more profit by buying in higher numbers (load lots).

 

[AAcattle]

Here is my two cents. I run cow-calves not stockers for what it's worth.

hi, i have a question about cow/ calf business. how does that operation work, do you sell bred cows or heifers, wait til they have the babies wean them then sell either the mom or the calf, or do you wait til the calf's born & sell the mom & baby together?

 

[shaz]

Here is my two cents. I run cow-calves not stockers for what it's worth.

hi, i have a question about cow/ calf business. how does that operation work, do you sell bred cows or heifers, wait til they have the babies wean them then sell either the mom or the calf, or do you wait til the calf's born & sell the mom & baby together?

All of the above. No hard fast rule.
In most cow/calf operation you breed cows, sell the calves and keep mamas that you don't need to cull.

 

[Dixieangus]

at a weight of 700lb at .65/lb or $455

A 700lber will be higher than .65/lb my friend

 

[Dixieangus]

a good rule is that cows will eat 2-3% of their body weight a day so recalculate the hay usage. And 15$ a bag feed just aint gonna cut it, im feeding my stockers soy hull pellets and corn gluten mix for 265 a ton. The 700lb heifer would bring about a 1 or more a pound here

 

[AAcattle]

15$ a bag feed just aint gonna cut it, im feeding my stockers soy hull pellets and corn gluten mix for 265 a ton.

May i ask where you get feed by the ton? do you shop at Co-ops, feed stores, or buy it directly from a farmer? I've been looking around & in Alabama I can't seem to find a bulk supplier. the Co-op sells it at $45 for a 55gal drum & the feed store sells it for $8 for a 50 lb bag. I'd really like to try save some cash on the feed part.

 

[Caustic Burno]

15$ a bag feed just aint gonna cut it, im feeding my stockers soy hull pellets and corn gluten mix for 265 a ton.

May i ask where you get feed by the ton? do you shop at Co-ops, feed stores, or buy it directly from a farmer? I've been looking around & in Alabama I can't seem to find a bulk supplier. the Co-op sells it at $45 for a 55gal drum & the feed store sells it for $8 for a 50 lb bag. I'd really like to try save some cash on the feed part.

I am buying range meal at 300 a ton in super sacks. If your supplier doesn't sell bulk feed do you feel two hands on your shoulder', or does he wear a mask. And he isn't the Lone Ranger I hate to tell you Tonto.

 

[tncattle]

I bought 3 tons (6,240 lbs. to be exact) of feed (finishing ration) about two weeks ago for 234 a ton, quite a bit of corn in it. I bought from Performance feed. I[m finishing out 5 steers.

 

[mlazyj]

I would not buy 250# calves , your asking for trouble . 350# min . Your profit is made on cheap gain ie your grass . The best use of your grass as was mentioned before is rotational grazing . The least amount of feed you buy the better , best to stick a decent pellet in front of them to get them going ,post weaning then graze them , if your pasture starts to get weak , supplement with hay . Down side of heifers is they are going spend some energy cycling and your rate of gain is going to suffer . Your going to want to hold them untill they are 800 plus pounds .