Need opinion

[-XBAR-]

Shorthorns are a dual purpose breed: meat and dairy. When you try to cover both bases you get a dairy animal that makes more meat than standard dairy breeds and/or a beef animal that makes more milk than most standard beef breeds (in theory). What you get in practice is an animal that does a half assed job of either.

Shorthorns are not a dual purpose breed. Milking Shorthorns and Beef Shorthorns are not the same thing. We bred our grade Jersey cows to Milking Shorthorn a couple of years ago. There is information about both Milking and beef Shorthorn at: http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/

According to the site you quote:
"As explained, the Milking Shorthorn is not a separate and distinct breed, but rather a segment of the Shorthorn breed. The pedigrees of both the Milking Shorthorn and the scotch Shorthorn trace to the same foundation animals if carried to breed origin. "
They are branches off the same tree.

As far as the "shorthorn" bull you bred to your cattle:
http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/milkingshorthorn.html
"Another factor in the decline of the Milking Shorthorn has occurred more recently. In an effort to increase milk production, the breed's herdbook has been opened to substantial introduction of outside blood, first from Illawara (Australian Shorthorn) and then Red and White Holstein. Today, many of the bulls registered as Milking Shorthorn are actually one­half or more ­Holstein. While these introductions did increase production, they also reduced the breed's genetic uniqueness."

I am not saying that they dont have there purpose but the poster is wanting to increase beef production. She asked for opinions and in my opinion she needs to look to another breed to reach her goal.

The information you quote is from FORTY years ago. You know nothing about the breed. You shouldn't even be commenting on this topic.

 

[Coco Donatella]

What's if after shorthorn bull we'll use Bazadaise or Simmental or Charolais bull? What results will be then?

I know nothing about Bazadaise so cant comment. I would encourage you to skip the shorthorn and use the Simmental or Charolais. :cboy:

 

[-XBAR-]

5yr old Asterisk free purebred shorthorn. Bred in Nebraska.

 

[Taurus]

What's if after shorthorn bull we'll use Bazadaise or Simmental or Charolais bull? What results will be then?

I have zero experiences with Bazadaise but from the Google pictures, they looks neat and very muscular. Coco is right, you should skip the Shorthorn.

 

[chippie]

Shorthorns are a dual purpose breed: meat and dairy. When you try to cover both bases you get a dairy animal that makes more meat than standard dairy breeds and/or a beef animal that makes more milk than most standard beef breeds (in theory). What you get in practice is an animal that does a half assed job of either.

According to the site you quote:
"As explained, the Milking Shorthorn is not a separate and distinct breed, but rather a segment of the Shorthorn breed. The pedigrees of both the Milking Shorthorn and the scotch Shorthorn trace to the same foundation animals if carried to breed origin. "
They are branches off the same tree.

As far as the "shorthorn" bull you bred to your cattle:
http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/milkingshorthorn.html
"Another factor in the decline of the Milking Shorthorn has occurred more recently. In an effort to increase milk production, the breed's herdbook has been opened to substantial introduction of outside blood, first from Illawara (Australian Shorthorn) and then Red and White Holstein. Today, many of the bulls registered as Milking Shorthorn are actually one­half or more ­Holstein. While these introductions did increase production, they also reduced the breed's genetic uniqueness."

I am not saying that they dont have there purpose but the poster is wanting to increase beef production. She asked for opinions and in my opinion she needs to look to another breed to reach her goal.

They may trace to the same foundation, but the Beef Shorthorn and Milking Shorthorn are two distinct types of cattle. They were related a long long time ago. Just like all Thoroughbred horses trace back to Arabians, does not mean that a Thoroughbred race horse and an Arabian horse are the same thing.

Ummm... your link is to a British site. I live in the U.S. and purchased the American semen through our supplier.

And I still state that your original post is incorrect, and is not a good reason not to use Shorthorn - namely your saying that the original poster will get a calf with dairy characteristics.

 

[Coco Donatella]

They may trace to the same foundation, but the Beef Shorthorn and Milking Shorthorn are two distinct types of cattle. They were related a long long time ago. Just like all Thoroughbred horses trace back to Arabians, does not mean that a Thoroughbred race horse and an Arabian horse are the same thing.

Ummm... your link is to a British site. I live in the U.S. and purchased the American semen through our supplier.

And I still state that your original post is incorrect, and is not a good reason not to use Shorthorn - namely your saying that the original poster will get a calf with dairy characteristics.

My site is to the American Livestock Breeds Conservation. American.

If you are content with your animals all is well. As I said they have a place.

In my original post I was trying to make the point of when you split the focus or purpose, you compromise both.

I am not attempting to convert you or prove you wrong and it is unfortunate if this becomes a discussion between the two of us. I am simply trying to guide the poster in a direction I think will help her to reach her goal.

:cboy:

 

[-XBAR-]

Yet you have no knowledge of the topic therefore making your attempt a MISDIRECTION.

 

[Taurus]

Yet you have no knowledge of the topic therefore making your attempt a MISDIRECTION.

Hypocrite... :hide:

 

[-XBAR-]

Bahhhhhhhh (sheep)

 

[chippie]

Whatever. Being that lithuanian farmer lives in Europe, he or she has access to breeds that are uncommon in the U.S.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Now it's really hard to decide There aren't hudge choise of bulls in my country. We know one Charolais breeder, which bulls are really good, docile, but it's necessary to have something for heifers. Simmental are big in Europe, but they haven't got high carcass yield. We always can buy Angus bull,but they have a lot of fat and fats determines price of bulls a lot.
One of the best bulls in Lithuania(I think it's the best Angus bull in my country):
http://www.angus.lt/index.php?option=co ... 64&lang=lt
We're sure that in the future we'll buy Bazadaise bull and ~20 heifers and after few years we think about Parthenais bull, but first we need to make our cows larger that they'll be easy calving, but also we need to have good results now, so as I said it's hard to decide
I've heard from other farmers that Shorthorns aren't really muscular, but their crosses are impressive.

 

[Taurus]

Personally I would give a Bazadaise bull a try.

 

[robert]

What does your market require? Which breeds are commonly available to accomplish this task? Is there an obvious premium or discount associated with certain breeds or crosses? What age / wt will you be marketing progeny? Answer these basic questions for yourself and you will arrive at the right answer for your situation.

We sell young bulls(13-22months old,weight 500-700kg(1100-1543Ibs)) to meet factory. The biggest price we can get then carcass weight is bigger than 280kg(~617 Ibs) and then carcass yield % is higher than 59%. Breed isn't important.

Charolais or Simmental would be my choice, fast growing, heavy muscle, large size. Buy Replacements and hang everything up.

 

[P.A.L]

Now it's really hard to decide There aren't hudge choise of bulls in my country. We know one Charolais breeder, which bulls are really good, docile, but it's necessary to have something for heifers. Simmental are big in Europe, but they haven't got high carcass yield. We always can buy Angus bull,but they have a lot of fat and fats determines price of bulls a lot.
One of the best bulls in Lithuania(I think it's the best Angus bull in my country):
http://www.angus.lt/index.php?option=co ... 64&lang=lt
We're sure that in the future we'll buy Bazadaise bull and ~20 heifers and after few years we think about Parthenais bull, but first we need to make our cows larger that they'll be easy calving, but also we need to have good results now, so as I said it's hard to decide
I've heard from other farmers that Shorthorns aren't really muscular, but their crosses are impressive.

One heck of a Angus bull.

I had big cows once. They ate all my money... downsizing the herd. Better results in a long run and smaller risk.

 

[P.A.L]

What does your market require? Which breeds are commonly available to accomplish this task? Is there an obvious premium or discount associated with certain breeds or crosses? What age / wt will you be marketing progeny? Answer these basic questions for yourself and you will arrive at the right answer for your situation.

We sell young bulls(13-22months old,weight 500-700kg(1100-1543Ibs)) to meet factory. The biggest price we can get then carcass weight is bigger than 280kg(~617 Ibs) and then carcass yield % is higher than 59%. Breed isn't important.

Quite small carcasses, We need to grow them to 350 kg to get the best price. Yield also better the price, but with these grain prices, it's easier to lose less money by feeding less .

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Now we give to offspring very little grain, that they won't loose their form and to sustain growth while they are in barn in winter.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Whats the point of keeping them in a barn for Winter?

 

[lithuanian farmer]

We need to have stable enclosures for them, but now we've just one for cows.

 

[-XBAR-]

What does your market require? Which breeds are commonly available to accomplish this task? Is there an obvious premium or discount associated with certain breeds or crosses? What age / wt will you be marketing progeny? Answer these basic questions for yourself and you will arrive at the right answer for your situation.

We sell young bulls(13-22months old,weight 500-700kg(1100-1543Ibs)) to meet factory. The biggest price we can get then carcass weight is bigger than 280kg(~617 Ibs) and then carcass yield % is higher than 59%. Breed isn't important.

Charolais or Simmental would be my choice, fast growing, heavy muscle, large size. Buy Replacements and hang everything up.

Fullblood Charolais have one of the longest growth curves of any breed. This means that while they ultimately wind up large animals, it takes them awhile to get there. The infusion of the brahman blood in the American purebred Chars sure helped this.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Also our region veterinary are very quarellsome and people around us can't understand how it's posible to keep cattle outside in winter, so they often are reports to veterinary about cattle outside. Our family was the first in our neighborhood, who keep beef cattle(cows) outside all winter.