Need legal advice on Family Ranch Land

[cowboy43]

My ranch has been in the family since the 1880's and I would like to pass it on so it will be joint owned and not be sold and continued to be passed on to future heirs. I have tried to google information on how to do this but have not come up with key legal words to do a search. I know an Attorney will be needed to do this, I want to be more informed before I go to an Attorney, Any sugguestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Have you looked up putting it in a family trust?

Katherine

 

[Shanghai]

You put it in a trust and have an executor so he/she can control it and benefit from it while screwing all the other family members

When done right the executor can appoint his/her children as the executor and this can go on for generations
It's best thing going
Unless you happen to be on the outside looking in then I can tell you it takes a lot of self control to not let it eat you up

 

[Alan]

I know you said you want info before a lawyer, but the only person to give you correct answers for your location and your questions is a GOOD lawyer. Spend a couple of hundred $ and meet with a GOOD lawyer that has experience in this area.

JMO,
Alan

 

[Texas PaPaw]

If you are a TX Farm Bureau member, they have estate planning specialists that can assist. No charge for their services. They can refer you to an attorney who is experienced in this area. Have used them before. Contact you local FB office.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

What everybody else said, and the "vehicle" is probably a non-irrevocable trust.

 

[Kingfisher]

Depends on where you are in Central Texas. Some of this property here is enviromentally sensitive and that opens doors for better ways to pass it on. Where are you located?

 

[Jogeephus]

Unfortunately you can't manage the land from the grave and if you try you could give your heirs a white elephant if you aren't extremely careful. I'd suggest doing a pile of reading before you talk to any "estate planners". Estate planners are everywhere, usually on a street corner next to the gal in the fish net stockings.

Here is a link to some information written by two of the most knowledgeable people in this area. Its a little dated but should give you a lot of general knowledge to get you started. But whatever you do, don't paint your heirs in a corner. If you set things up to strict with too many conditions all of this is for naught when congress changes the rules. They can do this but you can't - then you and your heirs are screwed.

http://www.timbertax.org/publications/f ... owners.pdf

 

[greybeard]

Just leave or will it all to me and I'll make sure your family's future generations get full use and ownership of it forever and ever. :hide:

(I'm in the sleazy little office right behind where the fish net stocking and painted woman stands under the gas lamp as she lures the farm boys----apologies to C Sandburg)

 

[cowboy43]

I am located in Caldwell co. I will check with Farm Bureau , some good points have been presented here,

 

[TexasBred]

Just leave it to them and don't try to dictate what they can do with it from your grave. Deed it to them before you die and retain a lifetime estate in it. One of the rights of property ownership is the right to use it to your enjoyment even if it means you want to sell it. (Gov't is grossly interfering with this these days though).

 

[Limomike]

Just leave it to them and don't try to dictate what they can do with it from your grave. Deed it to them before you die and retain a lifetime estate in it. One of the rights of property ownership is the right to use it to your enjoyment even if it means you want to sell it. (Gov't is grossly interfering with this these days though).

I agree with TB. My uncle did that with his 500 acre dairy and it worked out great. A trust is agood way to go too.

 

[Rafter S]

Deed it to them before you die and retain a lifetime estate in it.

I'm not saying don't do this, but keep in mind that if you give it to them before you die, then if they ever do have to sell it they'll pay taxes on the difference between what it was worth when you got it and what they sell it for. If you give it to them in your will, and they have to sell, they will be taxed on the increase from when they acquired it, which will almost certainly be considerably less. That's the situation I'm in. My father divided his estate between me and my sister before he died, and while I don't plan on ever selling, the tax bill will be significant if I ever do (he got it around 1970).

 

[skyhightree1]

We have land being controlled after passing and I plan to do the same. I have created a post or 2 about this same subject. One clause is my cousin has farming rights for his lifetime to a portion of our place however my grandmother and I are the actual owners we cant take his portion away unless he stops farming the land. I want to set up a fund to pay my taxes for 10-15 years after i pass and wife where kids have to keep land atleast that long. I talk to my son who is 8 who said he wants to be a football player in the NFL so unless drastic changes come he will not be farming lol My daughter would probably be a farmer or take over my business before my son probably would lol Just seems that way as of now.

 

[backhoeboogie]

My grandfather left his place "undivided". Lef the mineral rights undivided too.

Property might as well be public park property now. No one can use it and no one can agree on much. Timber companies want to clear cut the place. Take out all the old growth hard wood along with the pines. Half of us won't stand for it. So it sits there.

My aunts and uncles signed off their mineral rights to a sleazy land man for not much more than a song. Each of them gave up over a quarter million. Two uncles sided with me and signed for what I signed for. Now the others are crying foul.

It is a mess.

Grandaddy's intent was good but good intentions don't do a lot.

Me and some cousins claimed clear titles to other properties. In 31 years, no one has sold. It is all still in the family. Each person has a say in what happens with their piece. We all get along. Works for us.

Don't know what will work for your descendants. Based on my experiences, I say it is a very bad idea. On the other hand, I understand the intent.

I got my own place. On my own.

 

[skyhightree1]

The best thing to do with anything you own is to specifically leave it to someone so no fighting occurs. Do this as mentioned before you die let your relatives know whats in your will.

 

[TexasBred]

Deed it to them before you die and retain a lifetime estate in it.

I'm not saying don't do this, but keep in mind that if you give it to them before you die, then if they ever do have to sell it they'll pay taxes on the difference between what it was worth when you got it and what they sell it for. If you give it to them in your will, and they have to sell, they will be taxed on the increase from when they acquired it, which will almost certainly be considerably less. That's the situation I'm in. My father divided his estate between me and my sister before he died, and while I don't plan on ever selling, the tax bill will be significant if I ever do (he got it around 1970).

Do it 5 years before you die and if memory serves me right it is not subject to taxes otherwise it is COD (contemplation of death done specifically to avoid taxes) and thus taxable.

 

[Jogeephus]

Deed it to them before you die and retain a lifetime estate in it.

I'm not saying don't do this, but keep in mind that if you give it to them before you die, then if they ever do have to sell it they'll pay taxes on the difference between what it was worth when you got it and what they sell it for. If you give it to them in your will, and they have to sell, they will be taxed on the increase from when they acquired it, which will almost certainly be considerably less. That's the situation I'm in. My father divided his estate between me and my sister before he died, and while I don't plan on ever selling, the tax bill will be significant if I ever do (he got it around 1970).

Do it 5 years before you die and if memory serves me right it is not subject to taxes otherwise it is COD (contemplation of death done specifically to avoid taxes) and thus taxable.

Your partially right but there is a limit on gifting and if you raise the flag the gift tax is the same as the death tax.

Best way I've seen to do it is to form a corporation and have shares of stock. You don't need attorneys and trustees for this. You can give the shares of stock to your children when the corporation's assets are at their lowest during the year. You, as president, can pay yourself a salary and control everything. If you plan it right, and your children are trustworthy and understand what you are doing, you can gift everything to them before you are needing to go to the nursing home. The bad thing is if your children are not trustworthy you will end up giving them control of everything and they could put you in a cardboard box on the street. The good thing about this is if you have a child that gets stupid and wants to cash out then their shares of stock are not worth anything to an outsider and a family member - one who cares about the farm - can buy the shares for a fraction of their true value and your wishes of seeing it stay in the family is fulfilled.

 

[Limomike]

Jo, That sounds like a good idea, do you have personal experience doing it that way?

 

[Brute 23]

My grandfather left his place "undivided". Lef the mineral rights undivided too.

Property might as well be public park property now. No one can use it and no one can agree on much. Timber companies want to clear cut the place. Take out all the old growth hard wood along with the pines. Half of us won't stand for it. So it sits there.

My aunts and uncles signed off their mineral rights to a sleazy land man for not much more than a song. Each of them gave up over a quarter million. Two uncles sided with me and signed for what I signed for. Now the others are crying foul.

It is a mess.

Grandaddy's intent was good but good intentions don't do a lot.

Me and some cousins claimed clear titles to other properties. In 31 years, no one has sold. It is all still in the family. Each person has a say in what happens with their piece. We all get along. Works for us.

Don't know what will work for your descendants. Based on my experiences, I say it is a very bad idea. On the other hand, I understand the intent.

I got my own place. On my own.

You don't have to leave it undivided.