Need advice on a terminal bull please

[Willicd]

when you mention angus, are you referring to my limousin bulls being lim-flex? they are black hided but "purebred". there was obviously some angus influence at some point to give the black and polled genes, but my friend has been raising purebred limousines for 30 years and has never introduced any other breed. i have some cows that are 1/2 limousin 1/2 LH that i got from the guy i sold some cattle to a few years ago. maybe i will put a limo bull with them and put a charolais bull with the 1/2 charolais cows. i am looking at a really nice charbray bull. what would your opinion be of the charbray on these cows? any advantage over the limo or charolais? what about the charbray on the LH cows to build the breeding cow herd from?

 

[Brute 23]

In your original post you said you breed to Angus and Char bulls.

If you like the Charbray bull it might not hurt to try.

To my knowledge Char does the best job of masking LH and they bring top dollar. I would not throw an other breed in the mix.

 

[WalnutCrest]

That's a lot of questions...

Yes he is. If your friend didn't directly introduce the "black" and "polled" genes with his own fullblood Angus bull, he introduced them with a bull that had some Angus blood ...

Charbray x LH/Lim = could work good ... depends on the quality of the cattle and where you live

You've already got F1s ... and by using a composite breed bull (especially if he's an F1) on composite cows, you're likely to have a very uneven calf crop...but the top third to top half of that heifer class could be pretty solid prospects, IMO.

 

[elkwc]

I would keep the angus out of it. Breed Char back to back and go to the ring with 3/4 Char. They should do as good or better than their black hided counterparts. They will be docked around here. That is why I see fewer Char bulls every year. I have talked to feeders and buyers in this region and heard their reasons. As they say they look at what will make them the most money feeding them. I know I read in other areas they seem to sell well but not here.

Some times Angus and Char don't make for a good mix.

 

[Muddy]

I won't use any black hided bulls, including black limflex on the half Longhorn cows.....it will bring up the crazy longhorn chrome. Keep breed them back to a Char bull.

 

[elkwc]

I won't use any black hided bulls, including black limflex on the half Longhorn cows.....it will bring up the crazy longhorn chrome. Keep breed them back to a Char bull.

Muddy I go by a herd of solid black longhorns every time I travel to W Central OK. I assume they are a cross and the rancher must raise them. But in the 3 years I've been going by them I have seen one calf that wasn't solid black along the road. And they have good calves. Know of another herd very similar. He may have a non solid calf every 1-2 years in his herd. I haven't talked to the one breeder so not sure how he has crossed and selected them but was surprised to not see more colored ones. I used to buy steers to rope from a lady and she used Salers for a few years and the calves were almost all solid black. In this region a yellow/white or smoky calf will be docked. So I hesitate to recommend Char. Now if a person plans on retaining ownership to the rail that is different.

 

[Willicd]

what you are seeing in OK is likely black corriente. i know some registered corriente breeders over there and all of their cows are black. the cattle i sold a few years ago were primarily solid black and solid red corriente with a few paints and LH mixed in. i sold my black limousin bull with that herd and 9 out of ten calves are solid black or red and he takes very little dock at the sale. i have actually seen him pretty much top the sale in amarillo with those calves before. he was a friend from work and i was buying all of his heifers before he started retaining them.

 

[elkwc]

what you are seeing in OK is likely black corriente. i know some registered corriente breeders over there and all of their cows are black. the cattle i sold a few years ago were primarily solid black and solid red corriente with a few paints and LH mixed in. i sold my black limousin bull with that herd and 9 out of ten calves are solid black or red and he takes very little dock at the sale. i have actually seen him pretty much top the sale in amarillo with those calves before. he was a friend from work and i was buying all of his heifers before he started retaining them.

I thought about what I posted and decided I had better rewrite it. I understood from talking to a neighbor that they were a LH cross. I have never talked to the owner so can't say for sure. I do know those Saler crosses I used to see were LH and Saler. I will see if I can find out more information. I don't think they are registered Corrientes. For one reason I know I have seen what appears to be an Angus bull running with them. At least a beef type of black bull. With all the black versions of breeds now I hesitate to say for sure if the bull was straight Angus. I will send you a pm.

 

[Willicd]

i would be very interested to know what they are for sure. sound like they could be just what i am looking for!

 

[Muddy]

I won't use any black hided bulls, including black limflex on the half Longhorn cows.....it will bring up the crazy longhorn chrome. Keep breed them back to a Char bull.

Muddy I go by a herd of solid black longhorns every time I travel to W Central OK. I assume they are a cross and the rancher must raise them. But in the 3 years I've been going by them I have seen one calf that wasn't solid black along the road. And they have good calves. Know of another herd very similar. He may have a non solid calf every 1-2 years in his herd. I haven't talked to the one breeder so not sure how he has crossed and selected them but was surprised to not see more colored ones. I used to buy steers to rope from a lady and she used Salers for a few years and the calves were almost all solid black. In this region a yellow/white or smoky calf will be docked. So I hesitate to recommend Char. Now if a person plans on retaining ownership to the rail that is different.

Honestly, you're better off with Charolais bull for longhorns mix cows than using black bulls of any breed on longhorns. It does make a huge difference when you take the calves to the sale. Black skunktails will get docked harshly where the cream/charX calves will do better than the black skunktails. Not mentioned that the Charolais do better job to hide the longhorn chrome in the calves.

 

[skeeter swatter]

just a little update:

i ended up with 2 limousin bulls i got from a friend at claude that buys hay from me. dont have any calves from them yet but i do have 30 charolais/LH heifers that will calve from them next spring. the charolais/LH crosses have developed in to a really nice set of cows. now i am contemplating taking a few LH amd putting them with the limousin and using those crosses with the charolais bulls to see wich direction to go in the future. i suspect the black hide will sell a little better though.

I think you'll be pretty happy with your calves. Just remember that Char x cows will still throw about half smoky calves.
Good luck.

 

[elkwc]

I won't use any black hided bulls, including black limflex on the half Longhorn cows.....it will bring up the crazy longhorn chrome. Keep breed them back to a Char bull.

Muddy I go by a herd of solid black longhorns every time I travel to W Central OK. I assume they are a cross and the rancher must raise them. But in the 3 years I've been going by them I have seen one calf that wasn't solid black along the road. And they have good calves. Know of another herd very similar. He may have a non solid calf every 1-2 years in his herd. I haven't talked to the one breeder so not sure how he has crossed and selected them but was surprised to not see more colored ones. I used to buy steers to rope from a lady and she used Salers for a few years and the calves were almost all solid black. In this region a yellow/white or smoky calf will be docked. So I hesitate to recommend Char. Now if a person plans on retaining ownership to the rail that is different.

Honestly, you're better off with Charolais bull for longhorns mix cows than using black bulls of any breed on longhorns. It does make a huge difference when you take the calves to the sale. Black skunktails will get docked harshly where the cream/charX calves will do better than the black skunktails. Not mentioned that the Charolais do better job to hide the longhorn chrome in the calves.

Guess if you don't mind being docked for smoky, cream and char colored calves. At the sales I've attended they have been docked heavily.A solid black has outsold them everytime regardless if they are a cross. A good straight Hereford isn't docked as much around here. Each person has to make their decision and know their markets. But here I would rather be docked for a few skunk tails than all the Char variations. Again each person needs to do research in their area.

 

[Muddy]

Muddy I go by a herd of solid black longhorns every time I travel to W Central OK. I assume they are a cross and the rancher must raise them. But in the 3 years I've been going by them I have seen one calf that wasn't solid black along the road. And they have good calves. Know of another herd very similar. He may have a non solid calf every 1-2 years in his herd. I haven't talked to the one breeder so not sure how he has crossed and selected them but was surprised to not see more colored ones. I used to buy steers to rope from a lady and she used Salers for a few years and the calves were almost all solid black. In this region a yellow/white or smoky calf will be docked. So I hesitate to recommend Char. Now if a person plans on retaining ownership to the rail that is different.

Honestly, you're better off with Charolais bull for longhorns mix cows than using black bulls of any breed on longhorns. It does make a huge difference when you take the calves to the sale. Black skunktails will get docked harshly where the cream/charX calves will do better than the black skunktails. Not mentioned that the Charolais do better job to hide the longhorn chrome in the calves.

Guess if you don't mind being docked for smoky, cream and char colored calves. At the sales I've attended they have been docked heavily.A solid black has outsold them everytime regardless if they are a cross. A good straight Hereford isn't docked as much around here. Each person has to make their decision and know their markets. But here I would rather be docked for a few skunk tails than all the Char variations. Again each person needs to do research in their area.

So how much does a black skunktail calf brings in your area? Here, you'll give the black skunktails away while the Char X might get docked for 5-10 cents less than blacks where a black skunktail can get docked for more than 40 cents. Imagine if your calf crop is 75% skunktails...ouch.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Honestly, you're better off with Charolais bull for longhorns mix cows than using black bulls of any breed on longhorns. It does make a huge difference when you take the calves to the sale. Black skunktails will get docked harshly where the cream/charX calves will do better than the black skunktails. Not mentioned that the Charolais do better job to hide the longhorn chrome in the calves.

Guess if you don't mind being docked for smoky, cream and char colored calves. At the sales I've attended they have been docked heavily.A solid black has outsold them everytime regardless if they are a cross. A good straight Hereford isn't docked as much around here. Each person has to make their decision and know their markets. But here I would rather be docked for a few skunk tails than all the Char variations. Again each person needs to do research in their area.

So how much does a black skunktail calf brings in your area? Here, you'll give the black skunktails away while the Char X might get docked for 5-10 cents less than blacks where a black skunktail can get docked for more than 40 cents. Imagine if your calf crop is 75% skunktails...ouch.

Deleted :cowboy:

 

[elkwc]

Honestly, you're better off with Charolais bull for longhorns mix cows than using black bulls of any breed on longhorns. It does make a huge difference when you take the calves to the sale. Black skunktails will get docked harshly where the cream/charX calves will do better than the black skunktails. Not mentioned that the Charolais do better job to hide the longhorn chrome in the calves.

Guess if you don't mind being docked for smoky, cream and char colored calves. At the sales I've attended they have been docked heavily.A solid black has outsold them everytime regardless if they are a cross. A good straight Hereford isn't docked as much around here. Each person has to make their decision and know their markets. But here I would rather be docked for a few skunk tails than all the Char variations. Again each person needs to do research in their area.

So how much does a black skunktail calf brings in your area? Here, you'll give the black skunktails away while the Char X might get docked for 5-10 cents less than blacks where a black skunktail can get docked for more than 40 cents. Imagine if your calf crop is 75% skunktails...ouch.

The Char X's will get docked 15-20 cents and sometimes more. Herefords are in the 5-10 cent range. And recently I've seen some good ones even less. Don't see many skunk tails so can't say for sure. The dock on the Chars is why I feel we are seeing less Char bulls in the pastures around here every year. Four years ago there were 5-6 breeders using them down there. Now there is one.

 

[Muddy]

Guess if you don't mind being docked for smoky, cream and char colored calves. At the sales I've attended they have been docked heavily.A solid black has outsold them everytime regardless if they are a cross. A good straight Hereford isn't docked as much around here. Each person has to make their decision and know their markets. But here I would rather be docked for a few skunk tails than all the Char variations. Again each person needs to do research in their area.

So how much does a black skunktail calf brings in your area? Here, you'll give the black skunktails away while the Char X might get docked for 5-10 cents less than blacks where a black skunktail can get docked for more than 40 cents. Imagine if your calf crop is 75% skunktails...ouch.

The Char X's will get docked 15-20 cents and sometimes more. Herefords are in the 5-10 cent range. And recently I've seen some good ones even less. Don't see many skunk tails so can't say for sure. The dock on the Chars is why I feel we are seeing less Char bulls in the pastures around here every year. Four years ago there were 5-6 breeders using them down there. Now there is one.

Honestly, from what I seen at few sale barns, charX calves outsells the black skunktails every time. Charolais is popular bull for the folks with longhorns here and very few people uses black bulls on longhorn cows here.