Need a new truck, soon

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Does it really cost $1500 to get 400Hp out of a Powerstroke? I know several people getting 400-425 out of their Cummins for $1000 or less. Sorry, just trying to get ya all riled up.

And before everyone gets all excited about those numbers, while you can pull those kinds of numbers for those kinds of dollars, they aren't usuable ponies for towing. The liquid cooled Dmax turbo will allow you 400 usuable HP, however the turbos on neither the Ford nor the Cummins will allow you to use 400 ponies for any length of time before before EGTs sky rocket.

Rod

 

[El_Putzo]

Actually DiamondS, I have to dispute you on #3. I have an early 05 and it still has the NV5600. I believe they switched in 05.5 to the Getrag. ;-)

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Actually DiamondS, I have to dispute you on #3. I have an early 05 and it still has the NV5600. I believe they switched in 05.5 to the Getrag. ;-)

Ack, fingers not working well this morning. 05.5 is correct, however Getrag doesn't build the G56. Its a DaimlerChrysler Commercial product. Essentially a medium duty Benz transmission.

 

[flaboy+]

2) I figure its a light duty engine because I've actually had them disassembled. The crank, pistons, and rods are MUCH lighter duty than a Cummins. Open a couple engines up for yourself and have a peak.

They have to have stronger rods running everything from 6 cylinders. They need the extra support. The Navistar engine (new one) is designed to give HP/torque across a broader RPM range. Not all bottom end like the Cummins. I never questioned the durability of the Cummins. Did they ever go to wet sleeves? No? Then light duty.

3) Dodge used Getrags in their heavy duty trucks until 1994, when they switched to New Venture NV4500s and NV5600s, both of which are rated at 1500 lbtft. The 04.5 switched to the G56 transmission, which unfortunately uses a dual mass flywheel, so like the Ford that used it before, if you really want to put the power to the ground, you'll need to swap to a solid flywheel.

I don't own one but they are saying the Aisin is in the 06. Pretty poor tranny in my book.

4) I'm far too old for those kind of games. I could care less what anyone drives, but do NOT ever call me a liar based on you having spoke to 1 idiot at a dyno event who couldn't even pull more than 600 ponies on drugs. Do some research, attend a couple hundred dyno shows, and then you can talk.
Rod

I did not call you a liar Rod. Hope you didn't take it that way. Just like you I was sharing real life experience. I may not have attended as many Dyno runs as you but the big numbers are the exceptions and not your ordinary street trucks. I know they are getting some big numbers out of the Cummins but not with bolt (do it yourselfer) on stuff and it is not cheap. That was my point. To get 600HP out of the Cummins ya gotta spend the money but that is true for all of them.

I hear DMAX is going to 360HP 6XX Torque (might be out already). Wonder what they are going to do with the new 07 PowerStroke comes out at 400HP 650lbs Torque. Horse power wars benifit us all.

 

[cowgirl580]

Just got back from towing the '99 F-350 dually into the shop for it's 3rd (automatic) transmission since I've owned it. It averages one every 30,000 miles. I am trading it in, but for what? I bought the truck to haul cattle 40+ miles (the closest) to the sale barn. It had no power, so I had a chip put in which helped. So new, or newer, prefer a dually, also prefer automatic, needs to pull a trailer with 12 head of #1300 cows, and a hay trailer with 15 bales at #1200. What would you get, and why?

we've had probs with our '95 F-350 tranny. had 2 new ones put in in the last year. one was cracked before we put it in. this last time the shift sensor went out. good luck finding what you want

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1) They have to have stronger rods running everything from 6 cylinders. They need the extra support. The Navistar engine (new one) is designed to give HP/torque across a broader RPM range. Not all bottom end like the Cummins. I never questioned the durability of the Cummins. Did they ever go to wet sleeves? No? Then light duty.

2) I don't own one but they are saying the Aisin is in the 06. Pretty poor tranny in my book.

3) Just like you I was sharing real life experience. I may not have attended as many Dyno runs as you but the big numbers are the exceptions and not your ordinary street trucks. I know they are getting some big numbers out of the Cummins but not with bolt (do it yourselfer) on stuff and it is not cheap.

4) I hear DMAX is going to 360HP 6XX Torque (might be out already). Wonder what they are going to do with the new 07 PowerStroke comes out at 400HP 650lbs Torque. Horse power wars benifit us all.

1) To mechanics and those in the trucking industry, the Cummins is rated a medium duty engine, wet sleeves or no. And yes, it needs heavier rods and crank due to it being an I6, but if you ever compared a Dmax or Powerstroke rod assembly to a Cummins, side by side, you'd see what I mean. The Cummins rods are way overkill for the horsepower/torque produced by the engine.

2) 'They' are on weed Its a Daimler product that is effectively the same as a medium duty Benz transmission.

3) Sorry if I got a little testy, but we used to have troubles with ICPs (Internet Certified Professionals) arguing about power numbers based on a very slim cross-section of trucks. It was very tiresome, and eventually I quit going to Internet Forums all together.

But I guess it all depends on the do-it-yourselfer. Turbos and injectors are a very easy swap on a Cummins. I'm not a mechanic, but the first time I ever swapped injectors on a Cummins took me an hour. Very easy job compared to a Powerstroke or a DMax. Turbos are also very simple on a Cummins, simply due to the amount of space under the hood. So I consider that stuff bolt-on for the backyard guy.

For reputable diesel performance guys, there are two types of horsepower. Easy HP or Safe HP. The Cummins is still the king of bolt-on VERY Easy HP. 1 TST PowerMaxCR on an 05 HO will equal 500 dyno HP at sea level, pretty much everytime. But EGTs will sky rocket and you'll melt the truck down if you try to use that 500 ponies for more than a few seconds at a time. The DMaxes and Powerstrokes are a little ways behind, at around 450 HP Very Easy HP.

Safe HP is all I ever tried to build or brag about, and its still cheaper to do it with a Cummins than either the Dmax or Powerstroke. But you are right, its not easy stuff. O-ringed heads, twin turbos, custom injectors, camshafts and forced air induction are all needed to get a "Safe" 600 HP.

Long and short of it? Dollar for dollar, after 400 HP (due to that great little turbo on the DMax) you can still make more drug-free ponies and torque from a Cummins than you can a DMax or Powerstroke.

4) Its out now. Haven't had a chance to try one out though. Personally, I like the older iron. For a $100 fuel plate, $400 injectors, $1400 turbocharger, $200 intake, and $200 exhaust system, I can dyno 500 usuable ponies all day long.

Rod

 

[flaboy+]

Then tell me why I had to have a bigger clutch put on mine and so did my friend with a Powerstroke. Also, I know someone who ruined their auto tranny with a "programmer" not a chip.

This usually caused by the motion mechanism sitting behind the steering wheel.

 

[JHH]

As a sideline for a few years, I ran a diesel performance shop. Overall, I worked on over 1000 diesel pickup trucks and these are my observations over those years:

Dodge/Cummins - The Cummins I6 is second to NO engine for reliability. Sure you can name Duramaxes or Powerstrokes that have gotten as many miles as a Cummins, but they are far rarer than high mileage Cummins engines. It comes down to build. The Cummins is a medium duty diesel, whereas the Powerstroke and Duramax are both light duty diesels. The Dodge standards are the toughest on the market, although the clutches will start to slip with 80 additional horsepower. The Dodge auto is the second best of the three. And if turning up the power is your thing, NONE of the competition can be turned up as cheaply, nor as far as a Cummins. 600 HP is obtained with simple bolt-on parts. And stock, the Cummins I6 outpulls either the Powerstroke or the D-max when loaded. The Common Rail Cummins engines (03 and up) are the more powerful when stock, however fuel economy is poor compared to the earlier 12 and VP equipped 24 valve trucks (but still better than Ford or Chevy).

Ford/7.3 - Good combination. Ford trucks are arguably the best built, with better frames, although off-road handling isn't as good as the Dodge (again arguable, depending on what you look for). The 7.3 is tough, although weak in the power department. Turning up the power gets difficult past 350 - 375HP. Best automatic in the business though.

Ford/6.0 - Again, pretty good combination. More power than the 7.3s, but still won't quite pull with a Cummins. Stay away from the 03 model years. Reliability on the 6.0s is not proven yet, as those silly hydraulic injectors are still being used.

Chevy/D-max - I won't bother discussing the Chevy diesels before the Dmax as they weren't tough enough nor powerful enough to be seriously considered for towing duties. The Duramax in stock trim is the weakest of the 3 current offerings for heavy towing, but the power can be turned up further than the 6.0L Powerstroke, and when combined with the Allison, can make a potent pulling machine. I've seen modified Chevies hand modified Cummins their butts in pulling competitions, although that was in the very heavily modified classes. The Alisson, when mated to a stock Dmax, is one of the best autos going, but you turn up the power 100 ponies, the Alisson will begin to fail. There are no reliable upgrades to the Alisson yet. As far as the rest of the truck, I found the Chev to be the most comfortable, however it was shocked way too weak for off-road handling.

Anyway, just my observations over the years. Take em or leave em

I believe that their are some up grades for the allison. They are for the PWM torque convertor which is what fails when pulling because they slip the convertor in for a comfortable shift. Make it an on off so it doesnt slip and MOST problems are solved. Same goes for ford. JHH

 

[TheBullLady]

We've had Ford's and Dodge's (wouldn't touch a Chevy) over the years, and here's my humble opinion.

I pull a 32' stock trailer, and the best truck has been the Dodge. We've had two, a 2002 and a 2005, and they pull it great. Both are standards.. I also don't trust the automatic. Anyone I know that's had one has had problems.

The Ford (2003) was an automatic, and it was a nice enough truck but really lacked the power and pulling capacity of the Dodge's.

 

[Wilson_Cattle_Company]

Then tell me why I had to have a bigger clutch put on mine and so did my friend with a Powerstroke. Also, I know someone who ruined their auto tranny with a "programmer" not a chip.

This usually caused by the motion mechanism sitting behind the steering wheel.

:lol: