Natural vs Organic Beef

[lseger]

I think, despite the big organic craze, many of the people willing to pay the premium are probably more interested in "natural" beef -- which these days is starting to become synonomous with antibiotic-free, grass-fed.

I mean, in theory, if you raise an organic cow on organic feed, and then feed the "organic" remains your other cows after slaughter, those other cows are still "organic" - but may have BSE. What's the point?

As has been stated - a lot of people just want to know the cow was raised to be a cow, was treated well and ate what it evolved to eat -- that it didn't get shot up with hormones,antibiotics and other dubious chemicals and then stuck in a CAFO eating lord knows what mixed in with their GMO corn while standing in three feet of turd soup.

...and I guess that makes sense to me. That's probably partly why everyone here eats their own beef rather than take their chances at the supermarket.

There is definitely money in natural -- which is the route we are going with on all of our animals, down to the chickens. We're not even going to try to get the organic label. We're just going to try to make the yuppies happy enough to pay $18/pound for our cheese and $4/dozen for our eggs.

 

[donnaIL]

Around here at the pre-conditioned sales it is a give that hormones are implanted. I was told that its a fair deal for the farmer to make money with these hormones... but i personally think thats all it is ...a profit maker...and affects children especially...

Organic...heck if you have any chemicals or oil on your place i read it cannot be organic, and there are other restrictions such as organic corn or even organic hay...so none of the hay or grain can be treated with fertilizer, weed killers or pesticides (we personnally have not had to treat the bugs thank goodness). Some of the skinny critisized animals on this board may have been organic and bringing top dollar.

We do not pre condition or vacinate, treat, or give routine antibiotics like many people here do.. im sure many of you don't agree, it there was a need we would, I do understand that there are times it is needed... but we do care and take care of them.

We have plenty of people who want to buy our beef, because as said before, they want well treated animals who have not been pumped full of chemicals. I guessed you have all noticed that the organic foods get the prime spaces in the groceries stores, usually the aisel ends that makes shopping more convienet. There are plenty of yuppies here who are willing to pay the price. JMO. Donna

 

[aplusmnt]

Could A persons pastures be fertilized with Turkey litter and be Organic or All Natural?

 

[badaxemoo]

Organic...heck if you have any chemicals or oil on your place i read it cannot be organic, and there are other restrictions such as organic corn or even organic hay...so none of the hay or grain can be treated with fertilizer, weed killers or pesticides (we personnally have not had to treat the bugs thank goodness). Some of the skinny critisized animals on this board may have been organic and bringing top dollar.

That isn't totally true.

Organic farmers use fertilizer and pesticides. They just have to be fertilizers and pesticides that are approved for organic production. Check out the OMRI list if you are curious what is allowed and what is prohibited.

Organic farmers certainly use oil. I don't know many that farm with horses!

As far as skinny cattle go, it's possible to mismanage livestock in a conventional or organic system. Some people seem to think that organic production means you just turn the animals out and let them work. In reality, to be a succesful organic farmer probably takes a lmore monitoring and attention to detail since you can't use the easier and more effective chemical solutions.

 

[Bluestem]

Could A persons pastures be fertilized with Turkey litter and be Organic or All Natural?

Organic and all natural are two different animals. Organic is regulated by the USDA NOP's. I'm not sure that All natural is regulated by the USDA in a Farmer/Ranchers point of view. I'll have to research this further. There are restrictions on the use of manure in organic production. I do not think it matters from what type animal. But the manure would have to come from organic production. Think of it this way- There are two production methods- so called "conventional" and so called "organic" and the two should never mix, from a organic point of view. Where as conventional can use the best from both production methods.
A lot of folks seem to think that organics is easy. Throw seed on the ground and watch it grow. Let the animals run free and pick them up in a few years. Its actually a highly managed production method. There is very little good university research in the field so a lot is learn as you go. If you don't like to think outside the box and don't have the ability to see everything outside the box when you get there, you may want to wait a few years before jumping in.

 

[badaxemoo]

Could A persons pastures be fertilized with Turkey litter and be Organic or All Natural?

I can't speak for "natural". For the most part this is a meaningless term whose definition is very slippery.

If you are organic and use turkey litter, it has to be turkey litter from an organic operation. I don't know about turkeys, but some local guys are putting up organic chicken (broiler) sheds so that they can use the manure on their farms. But then they have the difficulty of trying to secure organic grain at reasonable cost for the chicken feed.

The cost for organic sources of nitrogen is extremely high. I think manure is the only cost effective way to provide nitrogen on pasture.

 

[farmerjohn]

I don't know about the rest of you but without chemical fertilizers and weedkillers I could not produce but about 1/3 of the beef that I produce. Most people do not have good enough soil to not fertilize. If everyone went organic beef production would drop drastically.
It's just a fad, like "designer" water.........

 

[Wewild]

I don't know about the rest of you but without chemical fertilizers and weedkillers I could not produce but about 1/3 of the beef that I produce. Most people do not have good enough soil to not fertilize. If everyone went organic beef production would drop drastically.
It's just a fad, like "designer" water.........

I like RALGRO.

 

[Angus Guy]

Organic farming is a small part of agriculture and will stay that way as long as people want cheap food. Another reason it will stay small is the fact that the american farmer feeds some 130+ people. If it works for you do it but please don't say that the program I'm using is wrong or poison. I raise and feed GMO corn and think it is great. I also worm, vaccinate, and do other preventive practices to my cattle. All of these things have increased my bottom line which is one of the reasons for farming.

 

[Bluestem]

Don't want to beat this to death. But here is a link.
http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/organic/co ... erials.htm
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/live ... rkbook.pdf

 

[MrGale]

Could A persons pastures be fertilized with Turkey litter and be Organic or All Natural?

you betcha aplus....i use chicken/turkey poop a lot....
it costs about the same as the chemical fertilizer when spread, but lasts for over a year....the chemical lasts about three months....it might depend on what the turkeys have been fed though....????

 

[badaxemoo]

I don't know about the rest of you but without chemical fertilizers and weedkillers I could not produce but about 1/3 of the beef that I produce. Most people do not have good enough soil to not fertilize. If everyone went organic beef production would drop drastically.
It's just a fad, like "designer" water.........

1. I find it hard to believe that you would lose 2/3 of your beef production without conventional fertilizer and herbicides. Maybe things are a lot different in Texas. Up here the lack of a cheap source organic approved nitrogen certainly puts a limit on grass tonnage, but if you maintain a decent stand of legumes, it certainly doesn't drop by two-thirds.

If your land is so lousy that you have to pump all of those inputs into it to produce grass, maybe you should think of doing something else with it.

2. I'm not worried about the total number of pounds of beef I produce. I'm concerned about the amount of profit I make on each pound. I'll let my neighbor brag about his 200 bushel corn at $1.90 all he wants. My 100 bushel corn brings $5.50 with a lower input cost and I'm not leaching nitrates into the groundwater.

3. Why would you care if beef production dropped dramatically? Wouldn't that increase prices? Are you concerned that McDonald's and all the other fast food joints won't be able to buy enough beef for their crappy products?

4. Fad? Look at the growth in the organic sector in the last twenty years. If it's a fad, it's a long-lived one and certainly doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon. The organic sector has been growing at double digit rates for the last decade.

Organic-local-sustainable farming seems to me to be a legitimate lifeline to family sized farms. Maybe it won't last, but for the time being it's a good deal for farmers and the environment.

 

[aplusmnt]

I don't know about the rest of you but without chemical fertilizers and weedkillers I could not produce but about 1/3 of the beef that I produce. Most people do not have good enough soil to not fertilize. If everyone went organic beef production would drop drastically.
It's just a fad, like "designer" water.........

If it is a fad like designer water then I want to get in on it because nothing is a profitable as the high dollar bottled water. And it has been gaining business for years!

 

[J+ Cattle]

I have a friend that has a son that will break out in a rash if he eats supermarket beef, so he is concerned about the food he feeds his family. I don't think these types of problems in the beef industry are caused by the cow-calf producer but rather the feedlots and processors with feed additives, ever notice a package of meat in the supermarket with a label on the front of the package that says it contains up to an 8% solution containing something that is a preservative. I think this is far more than a fad and is definitely a market segment that could put more money in our pockets. Just curious as to how many on this message board sell cattle or beef in some form of direct marketing arrangement, freezer beef, sell a steer, butchered beef, etc. and what method you use? How do you find your customers, advertise, word of mouth?