Natural / Organic Beef

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SF":38upf83u said:
If I'm ever in Florida I'll take you up on that. I've raised and butchered both. Grass fed has a different taste than grain fed. To each their own though.

In response to your sarcasm, I wish I was still a kid, didn't know I was more intelligent than you, but if I am and according to you, I am, then thats okay with me too.

SF, I truly look forward to taking your $200 also. It will go it will go in my console with all my other winnings.

You did say I was ignorant if I couldn't taste the difference and since you can, you know I sort of assumed you had more wattage in the old generator than I do.

I agree, whatever floats your boat but don't expect me buy into genetically engineered organic cattle or tasting a difference. It won't fly with me just like a steer tastes better than a heifer. I have won money on that bet also.
 
docgraybull":25pj0vl2 said:
RichieMaGoo":25pj0vl2 said:
I attribute my success partly to the fact that I try and raise my calves as "naturally" as possible. I raise them in hutches, with large outdoor pens (not those little 4'x6' dealies)
What? :shock: As opposed to roaming a pasture and nursing its mama I suppose? :roll:

LOL.....I mean as "naturally" as I can for bottle calves- that's why I put "naturally" in quotes. There certainly is no substitute for a calf being raised by its' mommy for 7 or 8 months.

I recently learned that a cows' teat has sensors in it. When the baby sucks, the "sensors" can detect any deficiencies in the calf, and the mommy cow will go and eat plants that contain what the calf needs for proper nutritional balance.

Lets see science try and duplicate that! (This also makes a good case for letting your cows free-range over varied topography- including woods, so that it always has access to what it needs.)
 
Brandonm2":1t6j0n2b said:
I have to agree. I have grass fattened beef in the freezer; and I like the meat; BUT I can tell the difference. I won't claim that I can taste the difference between high select and low choice; but Prime is a much different eating experience than low Choice and I can spot a cow steak as soon as it appears on the first bite. I like and I eat all of the above; but arguing that nobody can tell the difference between grass fattened and USDA Choice grain fattened by taste is pushing the envelope. I can also taste a definite difference between Tyson's chickens and the Rhode Island Reds/Austrolorps/Jersey Giants I raise behind the house.

And you are full of crap as a Christmas turkey also.
 
flaboy":17tx99ol said:
...genetically engineered organic cattle...

This is a new for me. Never heard of "genetically engineered organic cattle".

I'm familiar with organic beef, but never knew it was genetically engineered.
 
SF":hutueyd2 said:
flaboy...genetically engineered organic cattle...[/quote:hutueyd2 said:
This is a new for me. Never heard of "genetically engineered organic cattle".

I'm familiar with organic beef, but never knew it was genetically engineered.

SF, Larry made the statement in an earlier post that he has a waiting list of customers for seed stock of proven genetics for forage performance. This in reference to "organically" grown beef. Now, proven forage development is hereditary no doubt. Some do well on grass alone while others would be skin and bone. I have a problem with the fact that he think genetics will make better organic beef. I call shenanigans on that. Want great genetics for forage performance, buy Brangus.
 
flaboy+":39231jwe said:
SF":39231jwe said:
flaboy...genetically engineered organic cattle...[/quote:39231jwe said:
This is a new for me. Never heard of "genetically engineered organic cattle".

I'm familiar with organic beef, but never knew it was genetically engineered.

SF, Larry made the statement in an earlier post that he has a waiting list of customers for seed stock of proven genetics for forage performance. This in reference to "organically" grown beef. Now, proven forage development is hereditary no doubt. Some do well on grass alone while others would be skin and bone. I have a problem with the fact that he think genetics will make better organic beef. I call shenanigans on that. Want great genetics for forage performance, buy Brangus.



Try eatting one of those before he is 30 months old without grain and that Brahman part of his genetics will cause it to be as tough as your head. All knowledgeable forage only finishers know there is a major difference in grass vs grain finishing.

One more thought - better clean up your language - one poster has already been recently removed from the board. You have way too much to LEARN- before you get kicked off for your sexual remarks.
 
It is good to see that everyone has developed a real caring for their cattle and the way we raise them...in my opinion...no soapbox...we each have our marketing plans and have found our niche and raise our beef to fill the need of our customer base. If the tree hugging, granola chrunching dirt worshipers are demanding and are willing to pay the cost of organic or natural beef then it's a responsibility to fill the need and God forbid that one of us makes a buck in the process. Capitalism is what drives the supply and damand marketplace.
We don't do the organic thing because of all the hoops to jump through and the expense involved and besides we just have old hippies up here and the yuppie community is still small enough not to create a big demand for organic beef but I see it growing. Dave Mc
 
Susie David":nqjujeh2 said:
It is good to see that everyone has developed a real caring for their cattle and the way we raise them...in my opinion...no soapbox...we each have our marketing plans and have found our niche and raise our beef to fill the need of our customer base. If the tree hugging, granola chrunching dirt worshipers are demanding and are willing to pay the cost of organic or natural beef then it's a responsibility to fill the need and God forbid that one of us makes a buck in the process. Capitalism is what drives the supply and damand marketplace.
We don't do the organic thing because of all the hoops to jump through and the expense involved and besides we just have old hippies up here and the yuppie community is still small enough not to create a big demand for organic beef but I see it growing. Dave Mc

Couldn't agree with you more Dave Mc. I say if it works for you then go for it.

As far as "One more thought - better clean up your language - one poster has already been recently removed from the board. You have way too much to LEARN- before you get kicked off for your sexual remarks". I have been following this little scuff from the beginning and don't really recall anything out of line from ANYBODY. Chill out! :idea:
 
flaboy+":1o0g18k6 said:
SF":1o0g18k6 said:
flaboy...genetically engineered organic cattle...[/quote:1o0g18k6 said:
This is a new for me. Never heard of "genetically engineered organic cattle".

I'm familiar with organic beef, but never knew it was genetically engineered.

SF, Larry made the statement in an earlier post that he has a waiting list of customers for seed stock of proven genetics for forage performance. This in reference to "organically" grown beef. Now, proven forage development is hereditary no doubt. Some do well on grass alone while others would be skin and bone. I have a problem with the fact that he think genetics will make better organic beef. I call shenanigans on that. Want great genetics for forage performance, buy Brangus.

I see your point, however this may just be symantics here. Better genetics will make better beef whether it is organically raised or not. I do agree that genetics has a lot to do with how an animal will perform on different types of forage.
 
Larry Sansom":3ckl4cqc said:
...Try eatting one of those before he is 30 months old without grain and that Brahman part of his genetics will cause it to be as tough as your head...

Process him at 11 to 13 months and he will be great. Very tender, but probably on the lean side. Tender he will be. Take him straight from the cow to the grain feeder and push him with grain up to about a year old. The last 60 days, grain only. He will eat well.
 
After reading the debate about organice beef I clicked over on Yahoo and found this article:


Natural Beef Sales Outpace Other Kind By JEFF BARNARD, Associated Press Writer
Wed Oct 12, 7:41 PM ET

BROTHERS, Ore. - Back in 1986, with red meat becoming a dirty word in a more health-conscious United States, a group of cattle ranchers gathered in Doc and Connie Hatfield's barn to talk about finding a new market for their beef.

After hearing from a trainer at a health club, they chose what has come to be known as natural beef — produced without growth hormones or antibiotics, and fed exclusively vegetable feeds — and market it directly to natural food stores, where they could get a premium price.

"We were going broke. We were whining about how tough things were," said Connie Hatfield, one of the founders of the co-op Country Natural Beef, widely sold as Oregon Country Beef. Then "we found out about the market for antibiotic- and hormone-free beef."

Thanks to concerns about mad cow disease, the success of natural foods stores and Americans' growing desire to know where their food comes from, natural meat is one of the beef industry's fastest-growing sectors. Over the past 10 years, Oregon Country Beef has gone from processing 3,400 head a year to 40,000. Since the mad cow scare in 2003, production has more than doubled, with a 73 percent increase over the past year.

Estimated at $500 million to $550 million a year, the market for natural and organic beef accounts for less than 1 percent of overall U.S. beef production, but is growing at about 20 percent annually, while overall beef production of 24.6 billion pounds this year is down from 25.1 billion in 1995, according to the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.

Under the U.S. Department of Agriculture definition, almost anyone can slap a "natural" label on minimally processed beef. But through the efforts of ranchers and natural beef marketers, natural beef has come to be defined as raised without antibiotics or growth hormones, and never fed the meat byproducts that can carry mad cow disease. Organic beef must meet strict regulations, including the requirement that cattle eat only organic feed.

One of the pioneers and industry leaders is Coleman Purely Natural in Golden, Colo. Chairman Mel Coleman Jr., the company will be pressing the USDA to make the "natural" label for beef more definitive.

"The trend has changed," Coleman said. "Consumers today have become much more aware."

The growing demand has moved natural beef into mainstream stores. For example, Laura's Lean meats are sold in Albertson's and Fred Meyer stores in Oregon, and shoppers on Fresh Direct, a New York-based Internet grocer, can choose from USDA choice top sirloin steak for $4.99 a pound and Creekstone Farms antibiotic-free choice top sirloin for $5.99.

At the Newport Avenue Market in Bend, Ore., where all the beef sold is Oregon Country Beef, most customers are looking for taste and tenderness, meat manager Randy Yochum said.

But many are also like swim instructor Ulani Levy, whose father is a toxicologist, and who's concerned about antibiotics in her food and hormones given to cattle to make them grow faster.

"I'll be eating this the rest of my life," she said, packages of natural T-bone steaks in her hand.

Still, Coleman said he can count on the fingers of both hands the outfits doing more than $1 million a year in sales.

Michael Boland, professor of agricultural economics at Kansas State University, figures the higher prices paid for natural beef — around 20 percent — are eaten up by the higher costs of raising them. A sick animal that has to be treated with antibiotics drops out of the program and no growth hormone means cattle gain weight slower.

And while it's easy to get as much as a 70 percent premium for steaks, it is tough to get any more for the end meats — briskets, chuck and rounds, Boland said.

Oregon Country Beef made a key move last year when it made a deal with Burgerville, a Vancouver, Wash., chain dedicated to locally produced and sustainable foods, to produce all their hamburger.

Jack Graves, chief cultural officer for Burgerville, said the chain was looking for a safe source of beef after the mad cow scare in 2003, and held back sales to give Oregon Country Beef time to meet Burgerville's demand of 35,000 pounds a week.

Oregon Country Beef's growth has also been tied to getting into dozens of Whole Foods Markets, a chain with 176 stores in the United States, Britain and Canada, and 65 more in development.

The main thing keeping natural beef from going mainstream is distribution, said Fedele Bauccio, CEO of Bon Appetit Management Co., in Palo Alto, Calif., which serves only natural beef at cafes on college and corporate campuses in 26 states.

"These guys are up against the Monsantos of the world — genetically modified products, big agriculture," said Bauccio. "I think Whole Foods is growing faster than Wal-Mart. I don't know if they will ever catch them. But there is a huge population that cares about what they put in their bodies."
 
flaboy+":3iadm5ri said:
And you are full of crap as a Christmas turkey also.

People started grain fattening for a reason, son. IF there was never any difference between the two groups of cattle we would all still be grass fattening or at least once the tallow market collapsed. True "cornfed" or "grain finished" IS a marketing gimic, like some people are using "grass finished" as healthier is a marketing gimic today. I hope you succeed and people start paying a premium for grass finished beef. That would give all of us the option of holding our cattle instead of having to sell to the feedlots. I like the product; but those of us who don't put any seasoning on our meat can absolutely tell the difference between the calf I hold back for my personal use and the USDA graded steaks and roasts you buy at the store. My neighboring ranch has butchered ~850 pound 10-11 month old calves every year for everyone in their family and they all insist that it tastes BETTER. You are the first person I have EVER talked to who claims that a USDA choice ribeye and a grass finished ribeye taste the SAME. Even these grass finished people argue that their meat requires special preperation
http://shilohfarm.net/how_to_use_it.html
Maybe everybody I know butchers them too young (I like 12-15 months) and we certainly don't have any frame score 2 special genetics. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, it just does not match my experience. AND if you think a 4 month old Austrolorp chicken in a house with a yard tastes just like a six week old Tyson white rock/brood breasted cornish cross chicken from a chicken house then you have no taste buds whatsoever!!
 
Larry Sansom":xkdgd5l1 said:
One more thought - better clean up your language - one poster has already been recently removed from the board. You have way too much to LEARN- before you get kicked off for your sexual remarks.

You scare me to death Larry with your threats. If crap and implants bothers you, oh well. Kick me off. I tried to keep the debate light hearted. I really don't care how you market your beef.
 
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